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Really? You'd have to be pretty out of touch with popular culture to not realize that there are rappers born and raised in New York who use the word "yall".
As for Connececut, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if the few black people who live there don't have a lot of room to be very "black" if you know what I'm saying. Maybe they are out of touch with thier southern roots but not all of New England.
I think that you need to read my post again.
Especially the part that says "New England", and not New York.
I'm also not 25 years old, so I don't particulary care about rap..
That's how it is in Texas as well in regards to both groups.
Been busy and off line most of the week and probably will mostly be until the weekend, but had a few free minutes to look in and caught this thread.
This may well be the case, Spade. Earlier when you said in Texas it was pronounced "Yao" I did a double-take! LOL Because I had never heard it pronounced that way, or at least that I could discern...even among blacks.
But then again, maybe I really wasn't listening too closely and that there well could be such a general difference between the two groups. I think I will pay some closer attention because it has me curious now!
Really? You'd have to be pretty out of touch with popular culture to not realize that there are rappers born and raised in New York who use the word "yall".
As for Connececut, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if the few black people who live there don't have a lot of room to be very "black" if you know what I'm saying. Maybe they are out of touch with thier southern roots but not all of New England.
New York isn't part of New England. However, you bring up a good point about blacks using y'all. I don't know many black people, but I know for sure no white people use that word in New England at all.
New York isn't part of New England. However, you bring up a good point about blacks using y'all. I don't know many black people, but I know for sure no white people use that word in New England at all.
Alotta white people in New England don't say ya'll, but not none. Many blacks do and many whites do too, they'd be more from the inner city though not always, not that all the people in the inner city here talk that way either. But anyway, it may not be a ton, but it's not none. Also, you can't forget transplants. And to urza, the black people in CT do "have plenty of room to be black", have you been to CT or are you assuming stuff based on stereotypes? It's too stuffy and rich here for that, right?
I've just returned from visiting my 99 yo grandmother in WV. I will testify that in my own region of WV, Cabell County, that everyone I heard using "y'all", which was quite often, pronounced it as "y'all", and not "you all".
I was recently surprised to repeatedly encounter "y'all" in use amongst Virginians who had almost undiscernable Southern accents. It was ubiquitous amongst young adults in Charlottesville on a recent trip, even though none of them spoke with any distinct Southern accent pattern. The regional accent should, I would think, be Piedmont dialect with pronunciation aspects typical of much of the South. I'd contrast this to the Tidewater region of southeastern VA down near Williamsburg and the Hampton Roads area. There I encountered the use of "y'all" together with an expected variety of Virginian Southern accent. This also made me realise the extent to which I'm used to the "you guys" construction as a substitute for "you all/y'all". The problem, of course, is that English has no way of differentiating singular "you" from plural "you", so it often feels that some modifier is needed. I have even heard recordings of the late King George V, as well as heard his granddaughter, Elizabeth II, use "you all" (British English use seems to dictate placing the emphasis on "all" rather than on "you" as is the usual American pattern). One more note on the absence of "you guys" in Southern speech: I found - strangely to me - that my partner and I were not even addressed as "guys" in the informal, colloquial style of the Mid-Atlantic where we live; Virginians were much more likely to use the rather stiff-sounding (to me) "gentlemen" or some other polite form.
EXACTLY!!! I'm amazed that so many people seem to be ashamed of the word as if it makes absolutely no sense grammatically. Ya'll is quite simply short for "you all". However, "you" would be used by a teacher in the South saying "I want you to read this book for a book report" when it is understood that the class (plural) is being addressed. There is nothing incorrect about y'all when used properly. Technically speaking, "y'all" makes a lot more sense when addressing a group of 2 or more people than "you guys" especially when one or more of the "guys" is a female.
Great post! Reminds me of a cute story about my daughter. When her mother and I divorced, she later moved back to Kansas (where she was from originally) and had primary custody of the kids. We stayed good friends however, so visitation and keeping in touch was never a problem.
Anyway, my daughter was in third grade when all this happened and sometime during her first week at the new school, at recess, she referred to a group of her new friends, when talking to them, as "y'all." As the story was later related to me, the other girls poked fun at her because of it. My daughter -- now grown and engaged -- never had much problem with speaking her mind and being proud of her Texas/Southern roots so she stood solid and pretty and you please and retorted "Well, it doesn't make any sense to call a bunch of girls 'you guys', does it????
The other kids agreed she had a valid point, and for a while, the use of "y'all" became kind of "chic" on a Kansas playground! LOL
I perhaps should start a new thread on this, but I'm hoping to engage TexasReb on the subject: is the influence of Southern speech patterns - notably Southern accent patterns - growing generally in American English? Based on my own 55 years of life and also from listening to American speech portrayed in older movies, news reels, etc it is my contention that American speech in much of the country has become more Southern, seemingly beginning very gradually since the early 1960s. Are these perceptions based in fact and if so, what would account for the growing influence of Southern speech?
Let me add one twist to this: I would also contend that at the same time Southern speech itself has become less distinct and less removed from a theoretical Standard American English norm. Is it possibly just that American English is experiencing a convergence in which some Southern patterns are growing in national prevalence while other features of Southern speech are diminishing?
I perhaps should start a new thread on this, but I'm hoping to engage TexasReb on the subject: is the influence of Southern speech patterns - notably Southern accent patterns - growing generally in American English? Based on my own 55 years of life and also from listening to American speech portrayed in older movies, news reels, etc it is my contention that American speech in much of the country has become more Southern, seemingly beginning very gradually since the early 1960s. Are these perceptions based in fact and if so, what would account for the growing influence of Southern speech?
Not a bad idea, DocJ (starting a seperate thread on the subject, that is). But anyway (personally, that is), I would make a real dichotomy in this realm. That is, between accent/dialect...and idiom. A bit more below on it...
Quote:
Let me add one twist to this: I would also contend that at the same time Southern speech itself has become less distinct and less removed from a theoretical Standard American English norm. Is it possibly just that American English is experiencing a convergence in which some Southern patterns are growing in national prevalence while other features of Southern speech are diminishing?
So far as inflection itself is concerned, I think this is generally true. There are reasons for it, I surmise. While I feel reasonably confident there still exists a very distinct accent/idiom pattern which distinctly marks "Southern American English", it is fading/blending noteably. IMHO, the mass-media has a lot to do with it. Kids today are much more influenced by TV, and this realm is decidedly non-Southern speech! LOL Most colleges/universities in the South offer courses in the mass-comm department in which the sole purpose is to lose the Southern dialect.
Back when I was in college and wrote for the campus rag, I interviewed a mass-com professor on this very subject. The gist of it was, she told me "Being a Texan, I don't like it, but the fact is, a Southern accent will hinder you in the national job market. If you want to be a Used Car salesman down here, then it will be an advantage. But if you want to get a good job in radio or TV broadcasting, then it will hurt you."
At the same time, while Southern dialect is fading a bit, it seems, parodoxically, that some of the idiom is becoming somewhat more "general American". The use of "y'all is probably the premier example. It is still mostly confined to the South, but no doubt it has spread a bit.
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Reminds me of a cute story about my daughter. When her mother and I divorced, she later moved back to Kansas (where she was from originally) and had primary custody of the kids. We stayed good friends however, so visitation and keeping in touch was never a problem. 
