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^you didn't respond to the evidence i posted, but i'll take that as a concession. i stand by my suggestion that the person you met in st. louis who said "y'all" was not a st. louis native. i have an ear for linguistics and i just don't hear it in st. louis. 50 miles out, yes, but not in the city. the people i've encountered here with a southern dialect usually come from rural missouri or illinois and happen to work in metro st. louis.
No, I just pointed out that scholars who get $$ to study this stuff (linguistics) reach differing conclusions, because speech patterns follow gaussian distributions for populations, and therefore are NOT linear, as you seem to think.
And, of course, intermarriage never takes place between residents of STL and the 'rural areas', and there is NEVER any population movement between the areas.
But as long as we've solved (with 100% definition, down to the square hectare) the dialect thing, enlighten me on the 'Missouri- Missourah.' thing, por favor:
I can't remember what the SE Mo. folks said, but my co-worker (from Branson) who has a definite Upland Southern Drawl says 'Missouri.'
No, I just pointed out that scholars who get $$ to study this stuff (linguistics) reach differing conclusions, because speech patterns follow gaussian distributions for populations, and therefore are NOT linear, as you seem to think.
And, of course, intermarriage never takes place between residents of STL and the 'rural areas', and there is NEVER any population movement between the areas.
There is a migration pattern map somewhere around here, I am going to try and find and post it.
I was amazed at how little in or outward migration there was in Ste Genevieve County over the past decade.
And it would also help explain the speech pattern I am speaking of.
I've never understood Joyce Meyer's accent. I have always thought that she was Southern, so I was shocked when I found out she's from St. Louis. Is this accent common in Stl? Or is she just trying to sound Southern?
There is a migration pattern map somewhere around here, I am going to try and find and post it.
I was amazed at how little in or outward migration there was in Ste Genevieve County over the past decade.
And it would also help explain the speech pattern I am speaking of.
Decade's a pretty short timeframe.
I know of only one case (over 30 years) that was solved using a linguistic/dialect as the definitive evidence, and that was only because the subject said the word 'Dip' (for woman) whilst being (unknowingly)recorded.
And that narrowed it down to a specific (as in regional- think 100 sq. miles) location, which pointed at one subject.
I've never understood Joyce Meyer's accent. I have always thought that she was Southern, so I was shocked when I found out she's from St. Louis. Is this accent common in Stl? Or is she just trying to sound Southern?
But as long as we've solved (with 100% definition, down to the square hectare) the dialect thing, enlighten me on the 'Missouri- Missourah.' thing, por favor:
I can't remember what the SE Mo. folks said, but my co-worker (from Branson) who has a definite Upland Southern Drawl says 'Missouri.'
Is that common?
Or a statistical outlier?
GeechieNorth, I really don't have a dog in this fight as concerns the main topic of the thread. That is, a definition of Midwest (or Missiouri speech! LOL) one way or another (so long as the former does not include Texas! LOL). And I agree with you that it is impossible to pin linguistic boundaries down to a square mile, even a hundred! Thus, maps and even labels will vary sometime.
However, I do think the one slengle furnished does a very good job of deliniating major speech regions. And yes, they will follow general settlement patterns. That only makes sense. Too, the one I furnished was very detailed and contained some of the qualifiers you yourself mentioned (that is, mix within certain larger areas). And one reason to at least put a lot of credibility into them, is that most of those produced by other professional linguists do pretty much DO match up with the boader lines of the two mentioned above.
But yes, like regional boundaries themselves, linguistic regions are never going to completely match up. About the best one can do in putting "faith" as to "which is more accurate" is finding general patterns and data and shared conclusions as to why they are drawn the way they are. I hope that makes sense!
Last edited by TexasReb; 10-19-2010 at 05:16 PM..
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