Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry to spike any balloons, but most revolutionary soldiers were of British descent, as high as 90% from what parts of the UK they came I don`t know, but as George Washington stated they saw themselves as Englishmen fighting for justice and thought they deserved the same rights as fellow Britons in London, or Glasgow. A lot of Ulster Scots ( who were more ferocious) were in these lines as were a scattering of French, Dutch and German. The Redcoats were a mixture one third Hessian ( German)
don't forget King George of Britain was German ( not English) a third Scottish Highlanders and a third English, from Yorkshire, West Country, Essex ect: So an Ulster Scot would have faced DOWN a Scot from the Highlands.
At the battle of new Orleans in 1814 you had Andrew Jackson ( Ulster-Scot and English/Yorkshire) facing down a British frontal attack of Scottish Highlanders, where the slaughter was barbaric ( on the British side)
Hope that helps
Jim Webb, the author of Born Fighting, says that they were 40% of the Revolutionary War army. He obviously knew what he was talking about if he wrote a book on the subject. The exact words on the description of this book, on Amazon, were...."Born Fighting shows that the Scots-Irish were 40 percent of the Revolutionary War army".
Furthermore, the Scottish have been settling Appalachia in large numbers since the early 1700s. It wouldn't be unheard of for their numbers to have greatly increased by the time of the Revolutionary War. People in that region were known for having very large families.
I recommend Albion`s Seed for a true picture on how all the British isles settled in America from Jamestown onwards. There were two large movements of Scots in the 1700`s, first the Borderers who were either Scots, or English but had over time merged into Northern British and then the Ulster-Scots ( who hated being called Scots-Irish-that's an American invention) who were three quarter Scots and a quarter English, again would have merged into an anti-Catholic unit.
Separate thing again is as I have said, Daniel Boone is West Country British ( English and Welsh) not Ulster
There were two large movements of Scots in the 1700`s, first the Borderers who were either Scots, or English but had over time merged into Northern British and then the Ulster-Scots ( who hated being called Scots-Irish-that's an American invention) who were three quarter Scots and a quarter English, again would have merged into an anti-Catholic unit.
You're correct about the Scots-Irish label. The Ulster-Scots were always known as just that, Ulster-Scots, in Great Britain. The term Scots-Irish is unheard of to this day in Great Britain. And yes, the term "Scots-Irish" is an American invention, started by American colonists of English decent, as a derogatory term, to describe the Ulster-Scots.
To this day, many American Scots from the south mistakenly think that they are Irish because of that label. Or they think that they are half Irish and half Scottish because of that label.
Last edited by ChicagoAngelo; 01-13-2019 at 09:02 AM..
I recommend Albion`s Seed for a true picture on how all the British isles settled in America from Jamestown onwards. There were two large movements of Scots in the 1700`s, first the Borderers who were either Scots, or English but had over time merged into Northern British and then the Ulster-Scots ( who hated being called Scots-Irish-that's an American invention) who were three quarter Scots and a quarter English, again would have merged into an anti-Catholic unit.
You are also correct about this. Everyone who knows this history, also quickly assumes that anyone under the "Scots-Irish" label, is Scottish. I've been guilty of making this mistake myself, like in the case of Daniel Boone. When England started sending settlers to Northern Ireland, to create a buffer between them and the Irish, most people in England were pretty well-off, so only a small number of English came to settle in Ulster, but most Lowland Scots were very poor, so they came to Northern Ireland in large numbers to take advantage of the land offered by the King of England.
I posted an article earlier in this thread, written by a university professor on this subject. She explains all this in depth. I will post that article again here:
Just Who Were the Scots-Irish?
By: Carolyn L. Barkley
One of the students in my fall genealogy course commented last week that “My family always says that our ancestors are Scotch-Irish – whatever that means.” In that one sentence, she unwittingly defined the problem with the term “Scotch-Irish,” or more appropriately stated, “Scots-Irish.” The term implies an individual of blended Scottish and Irish origin, but this deduction cannot be further from the truth. First, the term is uniquely American with a clearer descriptor being the term “Ulster Scots.” To understand the Ulster Scots and their history, and eventually to identify your Ulster Scot ancestor, you will need to learn about the political and socio-economic framework within which they existed.
The first clarification is that they were not Irish, but rather Scots from the Lowlands of Scotland. They were Presbyterians, not Catholic.
Why, then, did these Presbyterian Scots come to Ulster in northern Ireland, and why did they later leave their homes in Ireland to come to North America?
Geographically, the northern part Ireland is separated from Scotland by a mere twenty miles and this proximity brought with it constant conflict between Scotland and England and the native – and Catholic – Irish. After James I of England (and VI of Scotland) ascended the English throne in 1603, he believed that it was critical to devise a plan that would enable him to concentrate his military resources elsewhere, without the distraction of warfare with the Irish. His solution was to invite Presbyterians from the Lowlands of Scotland, in addition to some English, German and French Protestants, to emigrate and settle in what became known as the “Plantation of Ulster.” By doing so, he not only would be able to control a large portion of Ireland, but would also be able to exercise tighter control over the Borders in Scotland. His plan was facilitated in 1607 by the “Flight of the Earls,” who left Ireland to seek help from Spain and Rome in resisting English control. When they were unable to return, their lands became forfeit to the crown. The first settlers arrived in Ulster in 1609 when Hugh Montgomery and James Hamilton, both lairds in Ayrshire on Scotland’s west coast, began to implement the King’s plan. These lands granted to the settlers, however, were not vacant and large numbers of native Irish were displaced. The areas being settled included the present-day counties of Donegal, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Tyrone, Coleraine (Londonderry) and Antrim.
The plantation plan proved successful and by 1619, approximately 8,000 emigrants had sailed the short distance to Ulster. These settlers proved quite industrious and established towns and farms, as well as industry and commercial interests. Life, however, was not idyllic and was characterized, instead, by a series of crises and threats, not the least of which were uprisings on the part of the native Irish Catholic population, who deeply resented the encroachments and who viewed the Protestant “incomers” as heretics. This resentment erupted, from time to time, as in the major insurrection of 1641. Nevertheless, the Scots lived in Northern Ireland for slightly over a century.
The five waves of “The Great Migration” out of Ireland by the Ulster Scots that began in 1717 were caused by a combination of political, economic and religious factors.
• The English landlords were Anglican and realized a large percentage of their income from tithes payable by all, regardless of religion. As Protestants, the Ulster Scots were not members of the official church, a variety of laws restricted their religious and political rights.
• The Scots settlers had established farms that they had continued to improve through almost four generations. In 1717, as the first group of 100-year leases came due for renewal, the landlords, in a process known as “rack-renting,” raised the rents on the improved lands to such an exorbitant extent that many farmers could no longer afford to remain on the land.
• Six years of drought occurred between 1714 and 1719 and three consecutive potato crops failed in 1724, 1725, and 1726. A famine in 1740 led to almost 400,000 deaths.
• The growth in the Irish woolen and linen industry began to threaten those industries in England and Parliament’s Wool Act of 1699 represented a severe financial setback to Ulster Scots whose money was tied to this industry.
These factors, when combined, made the perilous and expensive voyage to North America less of an obstacle than that of remaining on their land that now cost an enormous amount in rents and had become impoverished due to continued crop failures and drought. For those who tried to remain, the ensuing famine represented the tipping point, with entire protestant communities setting sail in search of land, religious tolerance, and a better life in general.
The first wave of migration (1717-1718) saw about 5,000 leave Ulster; the second (1725-1729) was larger. The individuals migrating during these two time periods tended to enter through Philadelphia and the Delaware River. Conflicts flared between these individuals and the Quakers and Germans already living in these areas, and so the third wave (1740-1741) was characterized by a push to the west, across Pennsylvania into the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia and then on into the Carolinas. They would later move into Georgia, Kentucky and Tennessee in the years following the American Revolution. The effect of Ireland’s 1740 drought would be the single most significant factor driving migration for the following ten years. The fourth and fifth waves (1754-1755 and 1771-1775) spring, in large part, from effective propaganda from America which took two forms: encouragement from family members already in America and relocation schemes promulgated by several North Carolina governors, among others. During those years close to 250,000 individuals migrated. Throughout the Great Migration, the desire for religious freedom, distance from organized government, and land ownership propelled the Ulster Scots out of Ireland. Perhaps not surprisingly, they were almost always supporters of American independence.
The term “Scots-Irish” and/or “Ulster Scot” became less used as the original settlers became assimilated into the mainstream of American life. It would not regain importance as a descriptor until the nineteenth century brought new waves of Irish immigrants during the potato famine. Individuals whose ancestors had settled in the United States as a result of “The Great Migration” felt the need to distinguish themselves from these new waves of immigrants who were Gaelic Irish, not Scots; Catholic, not Presbyterian; and who tended to settle in groups in cities such as New York and Boston, rather than in the Mid-West and South as had the Ulster Scots. By some estimates as many as twenty-seven million Americans can claim Protestant Ulster Scots origins. Their ancestors made an indelible mark on American history, including such diverse individuals as Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, Andrew Jackson, Stonewall Jackson, Mark Twain, John Wayne, and Woodrow Wilson, among others.
Irish research is not a simple task. Research into your possible Ulster Scots heritage may be slightly less difficult if you can establish where your ancestor came from, during what time period, and to which religion he or she professed. If you can trace him or her to a location within the confines of the Ulster Plantation and substantiate that he or she was Presbyterian, you will be able to focus your research more readily. The social status of your ancestor and the survival of records for a particular area will probably govern the success of your research.
Don't a lot of white people have at least some Scottish in them?
And most Presbyterians have a lot of Scottish in them.
English, Scottish and Welsh people don't make a big deal out of their heritage (unlike some more recent groups). Maybe that's why they're "forgotten". I'm mostly British but would be mortified if, for example, British groups wanted a Puerto Rican Day-style parade down Fifth Avenue or an ethnic lobby. We're American--we founded the place.
The first wave of migration (1717-1718) saw about 5,000 leave Ulster; the second (1725-1729) was larger. The individuals migrating during these two time periods tended to enter through Philadelphia and the Delaware River. Conflicts flared between these individuals and the Quakers and Germans already living in these areas, and so the third wave (1740-1741) was characterized by a push to the west, across Pennsylvania into the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia and then on into the Carolinas. They would later move into Georgia, Kentucky and Tennessee in the years following the American Revolution. The effect of Ireland’s 1740 drought would be the single most significant factor driving migration for the following ten years. The fourth and fifth waves (1754-1755 and 1771-1775) spring, in large part, from effective propaganda from America which took two forms: encouragement from family members already in America and relocation schemes promulgated by several North Carolina governors, among others. During those years close to 250,000 individuals migrated. Throughout the Great Migration, the desire for religious freedom, distance from organized government, and land ownership propelled the Ulster Scots out of Ireland. Perhaps not surprisingly, they were almost always supporters of American independence.
My Ulster Scots forebears came from Antrim in 1772, probably as part of a group led by a Presbyterian minister. They settled first in SC and then migrated to West GA.
I have another line that were Border Reivers. My Ulster Scots also have a Border Reiver surname.
My Ulster Scots forebears came from Antrim in 1772, probably as part of a group led by a Presbyterian minister. They settled first in SC and then migrated to West GA.
I have another line that were Border Reivers. My Ulster Scots also have a Border Reiver surname.
Suzy_q2010, I think it's awesome that you can trace your ancestry so precisely.
Some good posts here, I also have Scottish blood so I find it interesting. Its wrong to assume that English settlers were wealthier, wealth was not spread around that freely and folk were just as poor as in Scotland, even the ones who were sent to Ulster. The landowners were of Anglo-Norman origin, as in the rest of Britain. You weren't even aloud to farm the fields around you as the Norman land owners put their sheep first ! Up to the 1980`s in the Southern States, English was the largest reported ancestry by a large margin. The largest chunk of that settlement were indentured English servants who had nothing but took their chance in the Americas. The above post is right, not just Scots ancestry that has got downplayed but also English and Welsh.
You're correct about the Scots-Irish label. The Ulster-Scots were always known as just that, Ulster-Scots, in Great Britain. The term Scots-Irish is unheard of to this day in Great Britain. And yes, the term "Scots-Irish" is an American invention, started by American colonists of English decent, as a derogatory term, to describe the Ulster-Scots.
To this day, many American Scots from the south mistakenly think that they are Irish because of that label. Or they think that they are half Irish and half Scottish because of that label.
But nary a one is Catholic!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
