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Old 08-23-2011, 07:36 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,472 posts, read 3,546,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10013 View Post
Who cares what Hispanics are on government forms, as if it has any relevance on their day-to-day life? Hispanics aren't seen as white people in the real world. Period. It's just the way it is. They look different from what we classify as "white", have a completely different culture than typical "white culture". We can sit here and argue for hours, but nothing will change that fact.

And while we're at it, why are blacks and Asians (or white) classified as races? It has been proven over and over again that biologically, there is no such thing as race.
Of course there are "races". There's only one species (Homo Sapien), but racial classifications do have some Anthropological basis. When something can be quantified via genetic testing to the percentage, its real.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:45 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,521,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffredo View Post
Of course there are "races". There's only one species (Homo Sapien), but racial classifications do have some Anthropological basis. When something can be quantified via genetic testing to the percentage, its real.
I think the point of the OP is that race is largely a social construct. Instead of thinking of so called "Racial Groups" as defined sub groups its better to think of human variation on a continuum.

Even at the turn of the century southern and eastern Europeans were considered inferior to northern europeans in the Americas. In South Africa Japanese were considered "honorary white citizens"

Point being that many racial categories are social constructs. Of course humans have differences among themselves, but many of those so called differences are pretty fluid.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Cumberland County, NJ
8,632 posts, read 12,999,317 times
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Quote:
And while we're at it, why are blacks and Asians (or white) classified as races? It has been proven over and over again that biologically, there is no such thing as race.
In a perfect fantasy world your "no race" believe might work, but in reality race does exist and to ignore that obvious fact is foolish.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,600,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykeroutoftown View Post
Why do Americans classify "Latinos/Hispanics", "Jews" and "Arabs" as races?
Because Americans have to classify everyone and everything, and the fewer categories used, the easier it is to understand. Rational? No. Simple? Yes. A by-product of lowered educational standards and television addiction.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Bentonville, AR
1,134 posts, read 3,190,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykeroutoftown View Post
Why do Americans classify "Latinos/Hispanics", "Jews" and "Arabs" as races?

Latinos/Hispanics: Nations in the Caribbean, South, Central America that have cultural ties with Spain, i.e. the Spanish language. It is an ethnicity not a race.

It's so bad that many Americans of Latino decent believe it themselves, especially in lower income areas.

Most Latinos in the USA are Mexican (Over 3/4's?). It makes sense, only impoverished country that shares a walkable border with the USA so many immigrants (both legal and illegal) come to USA for economic gain. Most of these immigrants are multiracial with strong Indigenous traits. As a result most Americans assume every person with these traits, or even similarities (Black hair, brown eyes, tan skin, short) is Mexican. However in Mexico you have people of all races and a variety of mixes.

This mindset has lead to the "minority" mentality among Latinos. I think it's a very negative thing. An outcast feeling, that they are doomed for failure and never will be accepted which makes them want to be different. Which is why many refuse assimilation. At least among the uneducated. The mindset has to go and the term is not helping. Especially when it is used on official paperwork in the racial categories. People like George Lopez are not helping the Mexican community by re-enforcing Stereotypes.

Arabs are not a race. Arabs are people who share the same language Arabic. There decent/culture originates from the Middle East and northern Africa. They are mostly a multiracial people and like "Hispanics/Latinos" have great variety. Again not a race.

Jews, a religion. Can be from anywhere in the world. Any race.

Why do Americans still feel these are races in 2010?
I'm curious why you classify all americans as doing this?
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,877,648 times
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The Jewish thing is weird for me. My wife is Jewish but I am not, yet I get confused to whether Jews are a race, culture, ethnicity, or whatever. They could be "racial" if somebody said "that person looks Jewish", but Judiasm is not a race, it's a religion. But despite this, how can somebody "look" Jewish? Do I "look" Christian"? They can't.

So to me it can be used as a racial term even though Jewish people are not of a different non-white race (unless a black person converted to Judiasm or something). I don't always understand the stigma of race in America, except it's usually meant to delineate white people from "less white people" -- even if they are tan-skinned or have different facial features (Asian for example).
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:36 AM
 
604 posts, read 1,521,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west336 View Post
The Jewish thing is weird for me. My wife is Jewish but I am not, yet I get confused to whether Jews are a race, culture, ethnicity, or whatever. They could be "racial" if somebody said "that person looks Jewish", but Judiasm is not a race, it's a religion. But despite this, how can somebody "look" Jewish? Do I "look" Christian"? They can't.

So to me it can be used as a racial term even though Jewish people are not of a different non-white race (unless a black person converted to Judiasm or something). I don't always understand the stigma of race in America, except it's usually meant to delineate white people from "less white people" -- even if they are tan-skinned or have different facial features (Asian for example).
Probably because Judaism is an "ethnic" religion. Meaning the vast majority of jews are born in Judaism. Christianity is different in that regard. Same can be said of Hindus. Hinduism is largely an ethnic religion. The vast majority of jews tend to trace their lineage to the Near Eastern Semitic people.

I think the jewish example is a good case review on why our perception and construction of race is linked to cultural tradition. Go to Isreal today and you will see a diverse group of people ranging from Jews from Ethiopia to Jews from Iraq and Persia to Jews from Eastern Europe. At the end of the day all of these different groups identify as Israeli tied together through culture and history.
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:11 AM
 
37,881 posts, read 41,933,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
In a perfect fantasy world your "no race" believe might work, but in reality race does exist and to ignore that obvious fact is foolish.
It exists, but not so much in a biological context as in a social one.

RACE - The Power of an Illusion | PBS
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
285 posts, read 438,104 times
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About hispanics I have to say that for most americans the "branch" of the hispanic culture they are accostumed to are those of mixed ancestry, indian/white europeans or even pure blooded indians, this is mostly due to the fact that the hispanic regions closer to the US, like Mexico and Central America have a large amount of natives populations so that is what americans see.
But in large the "Hispanic world or culture" is made up by all the races but according to the country it will change it's racial make up
becoming increasinghly white as you move into some regions of south america and of course spain.
But even here the type of "white" found in Latin America is mostly from
the mediteranean regions like Italy, Spain and France, and in minor scale the nordic variety types.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:02 PM
 
886 posts, read 2,226,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missRoxyhart View Post
If you mean officially, they don't. Hispanics are considered an ethnicity by the government not a race, the only officially recognized ethnicity I think, but anyway, you can be Black or White and still be Hispanic.

Arabs and people of Middle Eastern and North African descent are actually considered White by government categorization.

And Jews are considered a religious group, but maybe an ethnicity too, I could see an argument for that but I don't think they're counted that way.

Unofficially, who knows the whole answer, but I'd say it's mostly due to culture and color.

I'd say our whole concept is wrong anyway, sure it's easy to classify as Black, White, Asian, or whatever, but then we screw it up by adding in smaller of more precise groups. It should be the same rules for everyone, or find a new type system. Hispanic includes so many different peoples, so does Arabs, but it's still more precise than Black and White, but why do some groups get more precision than others? I honestly don't like being called White, it groups tons of different people together that aren't at all the same, same with Blacks. I'd take Slavic as an ethnicity, which in my opinion it is, or Polish or Western Slav cause it's even more precise, but whatever, I don't get insulted being called White, what can I do? I do get insulted being called Anglo though, you don't hear that much on the East Coast, but when I encountered it I was pretty damn insulted, that's like calling all Spanish speaking people Spanish or Mexican, or like calling all Asians Chinese.

But anyway, it's obviously really complex and I doubt you'll get any satisfying answers. I'd say the overall reason for our classifications are based on historic and cultural attitudes and values. You're not really gonna get more than that.
You nailed it... hispanic can be black or white, or anything really. Thats why when cities have demographics it will says like 60% white (50% non-hispanic white_ or something to that effect. Arabs and persians normally fall under caucasion as well. Oddly enough it was quite different back when the US was founded... then Germans were not considered white, nor was anyone that wasn't British decent. Benjamin Franklin stated that Germans, Spaniards, French, Swedes, etc... were of a "swarthy complexion"
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