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Old 10-23-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,919 posts, read 24,178,739 times
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If the Plains states, a grouping with a name, culture, history, politics and identity of its own are grouped with the 'core' Midwestern states, it just gives the impression that the Midwest is, by definition, a 'leftover' group.

This is a sad thing that affects the self-identity of Midwesterners as can be seen in the multitude of topics on city-data with titles along the lines of, "Why does everyone hate us (the Midwest)?", "Why does everyone ignore the Midwest?", and "Why does everyone call the Midwest, 'flyover country'?"

Thee answer to the questions posed in those topic titles is, "Because you are a huge jumble that is to difficult to logically organize as a discrete region."
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,984 posts, read 13,352,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
If the Plains states, a grouping with a name, culture, history, politics and identity of its own are grouped with the 'core' Midwestern states, it just gives the impression that the Midwest is, by definition, a 'leftover' group.

This is a sad thing that affects the self-identity of Midwesterners as can be seen in the multitude of topics on city-data with titles along the lines of, "Why does everyone hate us (the Midwest)?", "Why does everyone ignore the Midwest?", and "Why does everyone call the Midwest, 'flyover country'?"

Thee answer to the questions posed in those topic titles is, "Because you are a huge jumble that is to difficult to logically organize as a discrete region."
This applies more to the West than the Midwest. Great Falls, MT has little in common with San Francisco, CA. The rainy Pacific Northwest is vastly different than the deserts of Arizona. Alaska and Hawaii are like night and day. Yet all these areas are grouped together as the "West."

In contrast, the Midwest is a cohesive region tied together by farming, moderate politics, four seasons, muted accents (General American) and laid-back people. Despite what some people on this board say, Nebraska has much in common with Indiana. The biggest difference in the Midwest is not west to east, but north to south. Central Illinois has little in common with Minnesota, and southern Ohio is vastly different than the UP of Michigan.
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,119 posts, read 6,563,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The western areas of those states in the "High Plains" region is still very wild for the most part as large ranches dominate. I have never considered the area where my relatives ranch (NW Kansas) to be part of the Midwest at all. You have to realize that land holdings can be tens of thousands of acres. Ranching can have a symbiotic relationship with wildlife as evidenced by the success of the CRP program. Most areas of the High Plains are ranching areas and not farming areas. The exceptions are the areas near commercial agricultural processing centers which includes: feedlots, packing plants, and slaughterhouses. The panhandle regions of TX and OK have had large-scale irrigation for decades, but now the Ogallala aquifer has been rapidly depleted in many of those areas- so the landscape scale ag is transitioning back to dryland farming which is much more sustainable and CONSERVATIVE. Unsustainable liberal ag subsidies for more corn acerage to be grown in semi-arid locations- particularly for stupid uses such as ethanol and HFCS is idiotic at best.
GraniteStater, I find your posts extremely interesting. I have a cousin that does some farming near Burdett and Rozel, KS. I spent a few days out there, and he drove me around and pointed out the differences between farming in Michigan and Kansas. I saw the difference between dryland corn and irrigated corn, and the milo fields (which I had never seen before), etc. It is a completely different world from places like Indiana, Illinois, or Michigan. I think people tend to lump the plains in with the midwest because they see relatively flat land and agriculture and think it's all the same. Maybe it takes a more trained eye to see how different the two places are, or a little more time spent on the plains other than just driving through. "
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,373 posts, read 3,110,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
GraniteStater, I find your posts extremely interesting. I have a cousin that does some farming near Burdett and Rozel, KS. I spent a few days out there, and he drove me around and pointed out the differences between farming in Michigan and Kansas. I saw the difference between dryland corn and irrigated corn, and the milo fields (which I had never seen before), etc. It is a completely different world from places like Indiana, Illinois, or Michigan. I think people tend to lump the plains in with the midwest because they see relatively flat land and agriculture and think it's all the same. Maybe it takes a more trained eye to see how different the two places are, or a little more time spent on the plains other than just driving through. "
I think both Kansas and michigan are midwestern, just in different ways. Kansas is the dry, western part and michigan is almost back east so of course it's wetter.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Tippecanoe County, Indiana
26,374 posts, read 46,217,550 times
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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
I think both Kansas and michigan are midwestern, just in different ways. Kansas is the dry, western part and michigan is almost back east so of course it's wetter.
With the big difference being that Kansas and Michigan have practically nothing in common at all.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
With the big difference being that Kansas and Michigan have practically nothing in common at all.
Neither do new jersey and maine, or idaho and california.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
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The midwest is not monolithic, and I don't see why it has to be. It seems like every other region is allowed to have variation - why not the Midwest?
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,436 posts, read 10,705,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
With the big difference being that Kansas and Michigan have practically nothing in common at all.

I live in Michigan and have been to Kansas. You are correct, the two states have nothing in common. Crops grow here in Michigan without irrigation. We have more water than anywhere on the planet. Michigan is flat like Kansas, but half it is covered in forest. Kansas is open, much warmer and just different. The great plains and the upper midwest have huge differences.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:39 PM
 
6,143 posts, read 7,529,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The Great Plains is the WEST (especially areas along and west of 100 latitude and west of the Missouri River in the Dakotas) and only mimics Midwest style crops via massive amounts of irrigation through liberal federal ag subsidies. The climate is semi-arid, thus very western. The attitudes are much more libertarian and small govt (hypocrisy I know), thus western. Social conservatism seems to be the norm, another common theme in the southern and western states. The people there also identify MUCH MORE CLOSELY with cities in the Rocky Mountain region or the Sunbelt. I know this for a fact because I grew up in the Kansas City, MO metro area.
I live in Omaha. I have never identified with Rocky Mountain or Sunbelt cities.
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Tippecanoe County, Indiana
26,374 posts, read 46,217,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogwalker425 View Post
I live in Omaha. I have never identified with Rocky Mountain or Sunbelt cities.
Kansas City residents generally identifies more with the Rocky Mountain and Sunbelt cities- particularly those in the suburbs.
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