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Physical Layout: Northeast
Transportation Ridership: Northeast
Huge Downtown Core: Northeast
Walkable Neighborhoods and Connectivity: Northeast
Educated Populace: Northeast
Cosmopolitan: Northeast
Political Makeup: Northeast
Cultural Ammenities: Northeast
Social Makeup: Northeast
Pace of Life: Northeast
Density: Northeast
Large Commercial Office Space: Northeast
Diversity: Northeast
High Per Capita Income: Northeast
High Housing Prices: Northeast
High Cost of Living: Northeast
High Employment: Northeast
High Taxes: Northeast
Multiple Institutions of Higher Learning: Northeast (Would you consider Georgetown a southern school or one associated with NE schools like Villanova, St. Johns, Seton Hall)
It's not just "mannerisms" of the residents (i.e. New Yorkers talk fast, walk fast, are rude, etc.). It's a number of different things. I have said in a number of threads, and I will say it again here, that the chief characteristics of northern cities are:
1. Major centers of heavy industrial activity. Shipping, meatpacking, steelmaking, food processing, etc. Most of these factories have disappeared in the Northeast, but this is something that all of the northeastern cities have in common. After all, agriculture is not nearly as important to southern states as it was 100 years ago, but it's still something they nonetheless all have in common. Washington, DC lacked this type of economic activity.
2. Heavy late 19th/early 20th Century European immigration. Boston, NYC and Philly were flooded by Italian, Irish, and Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe. DC, on the other hand, had no heavy immigration from Italy, Ireland, and Eastern Europe.
3. Heavy African American migration after the First World War. Most blacks from the South traveled to Boston, New York, and Philadelphia because of the boom in industrial activity in those cities. Prior to World War I, the native black populations in those cities were not very large. DC, however, already had a very large black population due to its being a slave territory. Also, Annapolis and Baltimore were two of the largest slave ports after Charleston.
All of the above factors have resulted in large ethnic/Catholic blue collar populations in the northeast and a black population that is much further removed from its southern roots than what you find in Maryland and DC. This is why Ben Affleck could make a movie called "The Town" in Boston, but a similar movie made in the DC Metro area would be ridiculous.
The reason for all of these things can be explained by the fact that DC was also a temporary city for temporary gov't workers. Until WWI and even to a greater extent WWII, DC had a large population that only worked on a temporary basis for the government. WWII saw the emergence of a large permanent bureaucracy.
Physical Layout: Northeast
Transportation Ridership: Northeast
Huge Downtown Core: Northeast
Walkable Neighborhoods and Connectivity: Northeast
Educated Populace: Northeast
Cosmopolitan: Northeast
Political Makeup: Northeast
Cultural Ammenities: Northeast
Social Makeup: Northeast
Pace of Life: Northeast
Density: Northeast
Large Commercial Office Space: Northeast
Diversity: Northeast
High Per Capita Income: Northeast
High Housing Prices: Northeast
High Cost of Living: Northeast
High Employment: Northeast
High Taxes: Northeast
Multiple Institutions of Higher Learning: Northeast (Would you consider Georgetown a southern school or one associated with NE schools like Villanova, St. Johns, Seton Hall)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
How is it totally false? You're assuming that cultural amenities, diversity, cost of living, good schools, and liberalism are the exclusive province of northeastern cities. You focus only on the things that DC has in common with the northeast (which a number of different cities also have in common with the northeast, btw), but wholly ignore all of the dissimilarities.
First, I have already pointed out that DC never had a manufacturing base. You ignored this. Second, DC never had waves of late 19th/early 20th century European immigration. You ignore this as well and act as if this only makes a superficial difference. Third, and as a result of the first two things I mentioned, the northeast has very strongly-rooted blue-collar, Italian-Sicilian and Irish communities that are virtually non-existent in the DC area. And unlike DC, Boston, New York, and Philly are all MAJOR hard hat union towns. Are you going to tell me that none of those things truly define the northeast.
The best argument put forward for DC being a northern city is the fact that it is dense and in close proximity to the northeast. But that's not really convincing to me. The "Social Makeup" of the Washington, DC area is nothing like that of New York. What do you mean by that? True, DC has a train system, but that's a very recent thing, just like Atlanta's Marta system. And most northern cities don't have a highly educated population. Do you think Providence, Newark, and Philly are highly educated cities?
Finally, the "DC votes democratic" thing is not a good argument. Nearly all major cities go blue. And the Democrats in the northeast are often voting for a completely different set of issues than Dems in the DC area. Dems in DC are voting for free trade, protection of the environment, civil liberties, and stuff like that. The overwhelming majority of Dems in the northeast favor protectionism are primarily concerned with preserving the strength of labor unions. It's not the same thing.
If a northern city, in your view, is defined by density, diversity, cultural amenities, an educated populace, high per capita income, and a fast pace of life, then a southern city must be defined by barns, racial and cultural homogeneity, no cultural offerings, and poor Stepin Fetchit incenstuous yokels. The truth is that there are southern cities that have plenty of cultural offerings, high per capita income, and diverse and highly educated populations, and northern cities with impoverished, poorly-educated, bitter, close-minded racist bigots.
It seems to me that most people on this board believe that southern cities are the complete antithesis of everything northern cities are supposed to be. That's a very bigoted view, imo, and one that does not comport with reality.
A direction or geographic location has nothing to do with attributes and opinions. The difference being: directions and locations are facts. The historical record points to the establishment of DC at a place where the north and south met: the Potomac River. Originally, part of DC was southern (Virginia) and part northern (Maryland). Virginia decided to take the land back so now all of DC is northern. All this other stuff (labor, accents, density, income, etc.) is nonsense. The fact and not opinions speaks for itself: DC is northern. Game over.
A direction or geographic location has nothing to do with attributes and opinions. The difference being: directions and locations are facts. The historical record points to the establishment of DC at a place where the north and south met: the Potomac River. Originally, part of DC was southern (Virginia) and part northern (Maryland). Virginia decided to take the land back so now all of DC is northern. All this other stuff (labor, accents, density, income, etc.) is nonsense. The fact and not opinions speaks for itself: DC is northern. Game over.
The facts do speak for themselves.
Fact: Maryland was a southern colony whose economy was based primarily on tobacco and slave labor.
The selection of the area around the Potomac River, which was the boundary between Maryland and Virginia, both slave states, was agreed upon between James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and Alexander Hamilton.
Fact: Baltimore is part of the Northeast. Manufacturing, heavy European immigrant population historically.
Fact: Montgomery County and PG County will not describe themselves as southern.
Also fact: DC is geographically "southern," but no one in DC will describe DC as Southern.
Also fact: DC no longer discriminates against minorities (lots of Jews, Italians, Hispanics, blacks). Find the same diversity in the south absent Atlanta and Dallas.
Fact: Baltimore is part of the Northeast. Manufacturing, heavy European immigrant population historically.
Fact: Montgomery County and PG County will not describe themselves as southern.
Also fact: DC is geographically "southern," but no one in DC will describe DC as Southern.
Also fact: DC no longer discriminates against minorities (lots of Jews, Italians, Hispanics, blacks). Find the same diversity in the south absent Atlanta and Dallas.
1. Baltimore is more northeastern, but this thread is not about Baltimore, it's about Washington, DC. These are different cities with completely different histories.
2. Denial doesn't change reality.
3. DC never really had any Italians to discriminate against. The city was, and still is, largely black-white. You don't really find much diversity in the North outside of urban centers, either.
How is it southern? Just say it. What makes DC so southern as opposed to Northern? Don't say what it isn't, say how it is Southern.
DC folks dont wanna claim the north....DC folks dont claim the south bc it isnt....The more West you are in DC the more transplants northern culture...the more East you are the more natives and the more laid back culture you see (southern, county, whatever they call it)
PPl in the north dont listen to chopped and screwed music or go-go music...they dont use terms from the south like "loudpack"lol
PPL from the north will ask you why you button your collar shirt all the way up unlike them...
PPl from the north will say "yo" ppl in D.C say "young" and "jo/mo" like yall say "joe" in Chicago
Just a bunch of little things you will notice you can determine that its either more of both than 1 moreso than the other...you cant classify DC either as northern or southern....it would be ignorant
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