Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are currently twin 400+ foot condo towers under construction, as well as multiple 20-30 story condo and office towers going up. The skyline has practically doubled within the past 5 years, and will essentially look about twice as big as it does now within the next 2-3 years.
Actually, my point is that Mpls, St Paul, Newark, Jersey City and NYC are all cities in their own rights, with their own economic and social histories, none are suburbs (i.e., an offshoot of another city.) Though they are closely situated, they all developed independently of one another.
In your area, a strong case could be made that East St Louis is not a suburb. There are other Mississippi River towns with the same dynamic: Davenport, Rock Island, Moline, and eastern cities like Albany, Schenectady, Troy, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, New Bedford, Fall River, Norfolk, Portsmouth to name a few.
Oh I never considered East St. Louis a suburb, I thought of it as I guess maybe an extension of st. louis city across the mississippi or at least a city in its own right. In any case, it is hardly what you'd expect to find in suburbia...East St. Louis long ago could've potentially become St. Louis' equivalent to St. Paul but they just never took off...now it is an embarrassment to us....it's dirty, smelly, most of the buildings are in terrible decay....and it's incredibly impoverished and crime-ridden, likely among one of the most impoverished areas in the nation. East St. Louis is the part of St. Louis that was hit by the rustbelt and never recovered. I really would like to see St. Louis make a decent effort to revive it. right now East St. Louis likely is one of the most crime-ridden and impoverished areas in the Midwest...I would imagine maybe only Detroit would have parts of its metro area as bad as East St. Louis. East St. Louis is an impoverished, crime-ridden dump that is an embarrassment to our city. I would say probably that East St. Louis pretty much consists of all of St. Clair County, Illinois and Madison County, Illinois. basically the entire Illinois side of the St. Louis MSA. I think that another good analogy might be Pittsburgh and Wheeling, West Virginia since they are both divided by the Ohio River.
Actually, my point is that Mpls, St Paul, Newark, Jersey City and NYC are all cities in their own rights, with their own economic and social histories, none are suburbs (i.e., an offshoot of another city.) Though they are closely situated, they all developed independently of one another.
In your area, a strong case could be made that East St Louis is not a suburb. There are other Mississippi River towns with the same dynamic: Davenport, Rock Island, Moline, and eastern cities like Albany, Schenectady, Troy, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, New Bedford, Fall River, Norfolk, Portsmouth to name a few.
Actually, I might say that a closer analogy to St. Louis' equivalent of St. Paul might be St. Charles, MO, across the Missouri River...I guess since we have two major rivers, maybe we could argue that St. Louis has two "wanna-be" St. Pauls? lol. St. Charles now has a big enough population in it to be considered its own identity and it has been experiencing EXPLOSIVE growth over the last decade or two. Another good analogy to Minneapolis/St. Paul might be Dallas/Fort Worth and Cleveland/Akron. In fact, if you look at Minneapolis/Saint Paul, they are laid out similarly to Dallas/Fort Worth and Cleveland/Akron, although Dallas/Fort Worth and Cleveland/Akron are much more spread out, and Cleveland and Akron are a good 40 or so miles apart from each other in addition to being north and south of each other instead of east and west. In any case, i agree all of these cities which are combined together actually are major cities in their own rights.
Such an ironic name for a 21st century suburb! The name conjurs up a country crossroads with nothing but a dilapidated gas station with a couple old geezers sitting out front, whittlin'.
Most of Northern Virginia was very rural but now its one of the most high-tech area in the nations for better or worse. A lot of natives miss the good ol' days and the influx of transplants brings in rude attitudes, greed, and unfriendliness but at the same it brings more diversity and more open-minded people. But one negative I'm certain of is the loss of open space, native culture, and green land/wildlife/plant habitat and the increase in smog and traffic and pollution.
Everything from Tysons Corner to DUlles airport is very built-up. Its location 10 to 15 minutes from the airport makes it very good for business. A lot locals have found the name funny too....like I remember at one point we joked it was named after Mike Tyson during that time when he bit off the other guy's ear
Actually, I might say that a closer analogy to St. Louis' equivalent of St. Paul might be St. Charles, MO, across the Missouri River...I guess since we have two major rivers, maybe we could argue that St. Louis has two "wanna-be" St. Pauls? lol. St. Charles now has a big enough population in it to be considered its own identity and it has been experiencing EXPLOSIVE growth over the last decade or two. Another good analogy to Minneapolis/St. Paul might be Dallas/Fort Worth and Cleveland/Akron. In fact, if you look at Minneapolis/Saint Paul, they are laid out similarly to Dallas/Fort Worth and Cleveland/Akron, although Dallas/Fort Worth and Cleveland/Akron are much more spread out, and Cleveland and Akron are a good 40 or so miles apart from each other in addition to being north and south of each other instead of east and west. In any case, i agree all of these cities which are combined together actually are major cities in their own rights.
Yes, I agree about St Louis/St Charles. They grew independently of one another in the early steamboat days, though now St Charles is suburban in character. East St Louis, I believe, owes its original development and growth to the railroads. St Paul, back in the 1800s, was bigger than Minneapolis, and was the head of navigation on the Mississippi. It wasn't until they put in the St. Anthony dam did Mpls become a river port. Its early growth was due to flour milling.
I visited Clayton this past Sunday, because I wanted to see Washington University. Just ... wow.
That's where all the people went that ran outta St Louis! "ha ha, I found ya"
I also found the Hidden Valley ski area south of Ellisville/Manchester. Missouri has ... mountains.
I visited Clayton this past Sunday, because I wanted to see Washington University. Just ... wow.
That's where all the people went that ran outta St Louis! "ha ha, I found ya"
I also found the Hidden Valley ski area south of Ellisville/Manchester. Missouri has ... mountains.
Not quite mountains I would say. Missouri, generally in its Southern half, can be very hilly though like parts of Eastern/Southeastern Ohio and parts of Southern Ohio and perhaps moreso than these areas....I find that a lot of people confuse the Ozark foothills with the Mississippi River and Missouri River bluffs in St. Louis, which is what a lot of the big cliffy stuff you see in the southern/southwestern parts of the St. Louis metro along I-55 and I-44 actually is. The actual Ozark foothills don't really begin until around Rolla, about 100 miles or so southwest of St. Louis on I-44, and you have to go significantly south of there before those foothills become true mountains. You find similar river bluffs in Alton, Illinois heading pretty much all the way north along the Mississippi until maybe up to Iowa...I'm not sure where they end in the Northern parts of Missouri along the Mississippi...I know that the Mississippi River bluffs in Southern Missouri along I-55 end around where the Ohio meets the Mississippi...this is roughly about 120-150 miles to the south of St. Louis. And the other reason that ski range exists is because generally St. Louis averages between 13 to 20 inches of snow a year now, historically 22.5 inches, so we get enough snowstorms of 2 inches or more to justify a skiing resort I guess and it is definitely hilly enough here to sled/ski. You don't need mountains necessarily to ski You as a Clevelander should know that assuming that is indeed where you are from
Yes, I agree about St Louis/St Charles. They grew independently of one another in the early steamboat days, though now St Charles is suburban in character. East St Louis, I believe, owes its original development and growth to the railroads. St Paul, back in the 1800s, was bigger than Minneapolis, and was the head of navigation on the Mississippi. It wasn't until they put in the St. Anthony dam did Mpls become a river port. Its early growth was due to flour milling.
Actually, it is a little known fact that St. Charles was the original capital city of Missouri. That is something else that St. Charles and St. Paul have in common historically, although obviously St. Charles could not continue being the capital forever due to its being far from the geographic center of the state and population growth elsewhere later on in the state when places like Kansas City began taking shape. St. Paul was able to retain its status due to its relatively central location in Minnesota...I guess assuming that location is primarily what affects the placement of a capital city.
Actually, it is a little known fact that St. Charles was the original capital city of Missouri. That is something else that St. Charles and St. Paul have in common historically, although obviously St. Charles could not continue being the capital forever due to its being far from the geographic center of the state and population growth elsewhere later on in the state when places like Kansas City began taking shape. St. Paul was able to retain its status due to its relatively central location in Minnesota...I guess assuming that location is primarily what affects the placement of a capital city.
Interesting about St Charles. Is the old captiol builing still standing?
RE: St Paul, we are actually not all that centrally located in the state. St Paul city proper lies just 20 miles from the Wisconsin border. The western border of the state is a good 250 miles from St. Paul. The geographic center of the state is near Brainerd, which everyone here considers "Northern" Minnesota.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You as a Clevelander should know that assuming that is indeed where you are from
