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Old 08-19-2006, 02:55 PM
 
436 posts, read 600,527 times
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I remember well life in 1960's Texas and being challenged (and threatened) about my beliefs as a young person (children are most vulnerable to indoctrination and intimidation) and growing up in public schools. I experienced similar questioning and badgering in VA, FL, and GA. Since eighteen, having traveled extensively in this country and abroad (residing in communities conservative to liberal) I've always been uncomfortable coping with ideologues (and religious ones in particular) who are outspoken. At times I thought America was moving forward, but it seems to me that in too many places in America, religious/cultural/economic intolerance is more pervasive than ever (perhaps in part owing to 9/11 and the subsequent political crusades in this country), and this current political climate has emboldened the regressive talkers. Many outside the "US experience" read and hear of American political discord. People everywhere abroad are clamoring for a saner US foreign policy (at minimum). It's been said before, but it begs repeating, "Fundamentalist thinking is not isolated to terrorist ideology." Christian/Muslim faith that our present existence is just a precursor to a better (or worse) life is not reassuring those of us who hold this life as the only one we have. Many Americans are not awaiting a rapture, a bounty of virgins, Santa Claus, or the tooth fairy - we are working toward a better life/world in the here and now without ancient superstitions and false hopes to buoy the disappointments in our lives. For those in America who want to regress to a more primitive time and place, and those of us who express our outrage against them, please just remember how we can all better cope with each others religious views: "separation of church and state," "separation of church and state," "separation of .."

Last edited by brian_2; 08-19-2006 at 03:38 PM..
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Old 08-19-2006, 03:12 PM
 
273 posts, read 1,594,984 times
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Question So, what brought this about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_2 View Post
Repeat to yourself America, "separation of church and state," "separation of church and state," "separation of .."
Repeat to yourself America "it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion", "it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion", "it's freedom of.."

Last edited by Lehi; 08-19-2006 at 03:37 PM..
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Old 08-19-2006, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,594 posts, read 26,001,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehi View Post
Repeat to yourself America "it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion", "it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion", "it's freedom of.."
And this means everyone is supposed to have a right to express themselves religiously (or unreligiously) as they please. It's unfortunate brian_2 that you felt badgered, but I hope your not interested in preventing others this right. This right might include allowance for annoying people or lunatics to bug anyone, (which I consider quite rude) but you also have the right to ignore them, for example; unlike many people like in many other Islamic nations.
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Old 08-20-2006, 06:55 PM
 
291 posts, read 621,928 times
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The issue Brian_2 expresses is a highly relevant criterion to the quality of life and choice of place to live. I have neighbors here in WA who say it is the #1 reason they moved (ironically, fleeing both TN intolerance and CA overtolerance!). I state this because the moderators do tend to discourage (and remove) topics that may appear to stray from their criteria of relevance. I think this is highly relevant in this forum.

It is truly sad to see the enlightenment ideals of our founding fathers in eclipse.
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Old 08-20-2006, 06:58 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 17,045,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodFarlee View Post
The issue Brian_2 expresses is a highly relevant criterion to the quality of life and choice of place to live. I have neighbors here in WA who say it is the #1 reason they moved (ironically, fleeing both TN intolerance and CA overtolerance!). I state this because the moderators do tend to discourage (and remove) topics that may appear to stray from their criteria of relevance. I think this is highly relevant in this forum.

It is truly sad to see the enlightenment ideals of our founding fathers in eclipse.
Then I suppose my answering "primordial ooze" to the original question wouldn't be helpful....?
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Old 08-20-2006, 07:00 PM
 
273 posts, read 1,594,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodFarlee View Post
I state this because the moderators do tend to discourage (and remove) topics that may appear to stray from their criteria of relevance. I think this is highly relevant in this forum.
It is a relevant issue however the topic of religion usually degenerates into religion bashing. That's why the moderators remove such things.
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Old 08-20-2006, 07:01 PM
 
273 posts, read 1,594,984 times
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Originally Posted by travelling_paws View Post
Then I suppose my answering "primordial ooze" to the original question wouldn't be helpful....?
Oh dear, let's not go there again.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:13 AM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 17,045,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehi View Post
Oh dear, let's not go there again.
OK.
I will say - and I'm speaking as a devout agnostic - that while some "fundamentalist thinking is not isolated from terrorist ideaology," I haven't noticed any attempts by Baptists or conservative Mormons to indoctrinate the rest of the planet by force.
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Old 08-21-2006, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Nowhere near Elko, NV
246 posts, read 281,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehi View Post
Repeat to yourself America "it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion", "it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion", "it's freedom of.."
Freedom of religion isn't enshrined anywhere, I challenge you to find where it is. The Constitution simply says the government cannot promote a religion nor restrict it's practice. In short the government is no agent of any religion. That's all it says.

It is freedom from religion in the sense that no group of believers has the right to curtail my rights as a citizen. It's freedom from religion that ensures you don't have a madrassa next door calling prayers over a loudspeaker 5x a day.

I give this thread 3 hours before it's pulled.

Magpies
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:16 PM
 
273 posts, read 1,594,984 times
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I did not post what I did to cause debate or to participate in one. I was only showing the other side of the coin. I will not take "challenges" or be drawn into a debate with anyone on this subject. Think what you like.
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