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Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Originally Posted by timeofseasons
There was a recent article of cities with the most crime. Minneapolis crime rates highlighted itself in the top ten, which is why the article referred to it as Muderapolis. That article took away all my found thoughts I once thought of the place. I would rather be in off the lake in Chicago then there by a large margin anyway.
Yes, we're all just waiting to tap the vast and untold riches of Minnesota. That Land of Plenty, spoken of in both Testaments New and Old, the proverbial jackpot of economic plenty and splendor. Where would we be without the ... the... Many, many lakes of Minnesota? What would we do without a state so blistering cold and unattractive that it is mostly deserted wasteland?
Truly, the other rust belt states are eyeing that cornucopia of success and just dying to plunder the dragon's hoard of gold and gems in Minnesota.
Blistering cold yes, at least in winter but not an unattractive wasteland. I bet you have never been there.
Native of Michigan and it does have a northeastern feel. Not just landscape and weather but cities, etc... Especially upstate new york. The capital city of Michigan (Lansing) was settled by New Yorkers from Lansing New York, right next to Ithaca.
I also live in Iowa ( don't have intentions spending more than five years here) and surprisenly found the landscape ( at least eastern half) similar to northeast with the gently rolling hills you would find near the eastern mountains but do not relate to that half of the region as Michigan.
I have been to 48 of the 50 states and most places in the northeast are much more of a rocky landscape than anywhere in the midwest. The eastern part of Ohio is the only exception as that is part of the allegenny plateau. Places like the Hocking hills look very much like the northeast, and geologically you could argue that they are part of it. Most places in the midwest that are hilly, like parts of northern Michigan or the area of Iowa you described do not have the rocky outcroppings that are so common in the east. The midwest is obvioulsly mostly flat, but in areas where there are hills it is more gently rolling. Another major difference is how close the towns are to each other in the northeast( its much more densly populated out there), as well as how irratically the roads meander about. In the midwest the Northwest Ordinance set up our part of the nation into squared off divisions, and our roads reflect that today. Next time your on a plane flying over the northeast you can look down and physically see how different it is layed out. The people are completly different in any northeast state than they are in Michigan. There is no similarity between modern Mi and the northeast other than maybe the fact that its cold in the winter. Now the historical connection is there, but waves of new populations have all but overwhelmed the influence they brought here, other than place names. Why is it that those who claim Mi, Ind or any other western great lakes state is more like the northeast usually live in the plains area??? Do people in the plains have the right to determine what is "most midwestern" Since the term midwest originally applied only to those states of the old northwest ordinance I say we are the ones who get to define it. The western great lakes states are different from the plains but we are certainly not northeastern. No way, no how, NEVER.
I have been to 48 of the 50 states and most places in the northeast are much more of a rocky landscape than anywhere in the midwest. The eastern part of Ohio is the only exception as that is part of the allegenny plateau. Places like the Hocking hills look very much like the northeast, and geologically you could argue that they are part of it. Most places in the midwest that are hilly, like parts of northern Michigan or the area of Iowa you described do not have the rocky outcroppings that are so common in the east. The midwest is obvioulsly mostly flat, but in areas where there are hills it is more gently rolling. Another major difference is how close the towns are to each other in the northeast( its much more densly populated out there), as well as how irratically the roads meander about. In the midwest the Northwest Ordinance set up our part of the nation into squared off divisions, and our roads reflect that today. Next time your on a plane flying over the northeast you can look down and physically see how different it is layed out. The people are completly different in any northeast state than they are in Michigan. There is no similarity between modern Mi and the northeast other than maybe the fact that its cold in the winter. Now the historical connection is there, but waves of new populations have all but overwhelmed the influence they brought here, other than place names. Why is it that those who claim Mi, Ind or any other western great lakes state is more like the northeast usually live in the plains area??? Do people in the plains have the right to determine what is "most midwestern" Since the term midwest originally applied only to those states of the old northwest ordinance I say we are the ones who get to define it. The western great lakes states are different from the plains but we are certainly not northeastern. No way, no how, NEVER.
So your saying that Michigan has more in common with Nebraska than with New York or Pennsylania?
Not saying your wrong and it is a interesting conversation. Personally I at least partially disagree with you. If you think that everyone in the NE lives in the cities of the fast paced Bosh-Wash corridor than I can see what you are saying. But I personally think that a Dairy farmer in Michigan or Wisconsin has more in common with a Dairy farmer in Upstate NY than with a Wheat farmer in Kansas.
Another example, someone living in a remote cabin in a forest in the UP might feel at little more at home in the Adirondacks than in the open plains of Nebraska. Someone with a lake cottage on Lake Huron might feel more at home on Lake Ontario in New York than in the Badlands of the Dakotas. And a big city like Detroit with its suburbs may have more in common with Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Buffalo etc. than say Omaha or Bismarck.
Again, I am not saying your wrong and I like your road comment (never thought about it before). However, I do think the issue is more complicated than you let on.
So your saying that Michigan has more in common with Nebraska than with New York or Pennsylania?
Not saying your wrong and it is a interesting conversation. Personally I at least partially disagree with you. If you think that everyone in the NE lives in the cities of the fast paced Bosh-Wash corridor than I can see what you are saying. But I personally think that a Dairy farmer in Michigan or Wisconsin has more in common with a Dairy farmer in Upstate NY than with a Wheat farmer in Kansas.
Another example, someone living in a remote cabin in a forest in the UP might feel at little more at home in the Adirondacks than in the open plains of Nebraska. Someone with a lake cottage on Lake Huron might feel more at home on Lake Ontario in New York than in the Badlands of the Dakotas. And a big city like Detroit with its suburbs may have more in common with Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Buffalo etc. than say Omaha or Bismarck.
Again, I am not saying your wrong and I like your road comment (never thought about it before). However, I do think the issue is more complicated than you let on.
I dont think Michigan is like Nebraska at all, nor do I think its like New york. The reason these debates rage is because the midwest is not a homogenous region with no major differences. If you look at the midwest as three sub regions then states can more easily be grouped together. The plains would be one (Both dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas), the upper midwest( Mn, Mi, Wi) and the lower midwest (Oh, Ind, Ill, Ia). My groupings may not be perfect, as parts of Ia and Mn for example are more like the plains, but for the most part they make sense. Midwest is a loose geographic term that describes some very different states that are between the mountain ranges. While we all share some common midwestern traits like a strong work ethic and a reserved nature, we are also quite different from state to state. While all midwest states are somewhat agricultural, some have more manufacturing than others, some are more northwoods than others. Clearly a northwoods upper midwest town like Traverse city Mi is far different from Lincoln Nebraska, but both share the midwest label. I do see your point about Detroit, even here in rural Michigan we see it as differnt. (the same is true of Chicago) Im not sure however it can be compared to the big cities of the northeast. In fact there are people from the northeast that move there or visit Detroit and cannot stand the provincial nature of it. They (northeasterners) see Detroit as provincial and lacking sophistication and culture. Like all midwest cities its is seen as dull by those in the east. We had a guy transfer out to our location as a job transfer from NY. (I live 100 miles NW of metro Detroit) The culture shock was overwhelming for him. He thought the people where overwhelmingly friendly, and he considered this invasive and strange. He claimed people in the northeast keep to themselves and dont interact with people for the sake of small talk. The open rural landscape was strange to him, and the slower pace of life shocked him as well. He lasted 3 months and quit his job and flew home to New York. He was a nice guy, but he just couldnt deal with how different it was. After seeing that incident it drove home how different the upper midwest is from the northeast. While we share a historical tie, its not evident today other than looking at place names on our map.
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