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Old 02-18-2013, 10:13 AM
 
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Pennsylvania is a northeastern state and Virginia is a southern state. Not that many similarities in between the two imo.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
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You can compare Southern states and Northern states. Particularly something like Virginia and PA since they're not so far apart.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:39 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Originally Posted by lammius View Post
I'd say the two states share a few things in common. To me, this is especially apparent in the Shenandoah Valley region. That area was settled by the same mix of German and Scots-Irish that settled south-central Pennsylvania. They creeped up the valley along the old Philadelphia Wagon Road. You'll find sizable Mennonite populations in both regions too.
Wouldn't it be that settlers moved their way down the road from Pennsylvania into Virginia? I always thought that Appalachian settlement patterns originated in Pennsylvania and moved their way down the spine of the Appalachians before spreading west along the Ohio River and the Tennessee River.

On a related note, I guess you could say the Appalachian South is a blend of Pennsylvania and traditional Southern cultures, and the Mid-South is that same Pennsylvania/traditional Southern blend modified by Midwestern culture.


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Originally Posted by lammius View Post
Even the architecture and building materials of older buildings in Winchester resembles that of older buildings in places like Lancaster. And if you put two Google streetview images together, one from Chambersburg PA and the other from Berryville VA, try to tell them apart. Of course, at their nearest, the borders of VA and PA are only 22 highway miles apart.
They're part of the "Row House Belt," which covers the following areas:


- The southern two-thirds of Pennsylvania
- The southern two-thirds of New Jersey
- All of Delaware
- All of Maryland
- The northern third of West Virginia
- The northern third of Virginia


From there, the row houses spread west along the Ohio River and the old "National Road" corridor, including the southern two thirds of Ohio and Indiana, the northern third of Kentucky, central Illinois, and the northern two-thirds of Missouri. They gradually decrease in frequency the farther west you go, with the notable exception of St. Louis and vicinity.


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Originally Posted by lammius View Post
So through the Great Valley from about Harrisonburg through Lebanon is one contiguous region with a lot of cultural similarities, IMO. By the time you travel farther east of Lebanon toward Reading and Allentown, things change too much to stay grouped with the rest. Same when you get toward Staunton and Lexington heading south from Harrisonburg.
You're basically describing the Mid-Atlantic Piedmont. A lot of people forget that the Piedmont isn't just in the Carolinas and Georgia. It extends all the way north into southeastern Pennsylvania.


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Originally Posted by lammius View Post
I'd bet that Southwestern VA has some similarities to Western PA too (coal country Appalachia), but I'm not familiar enough with either region to say more.
Yes and no. The Appalachian Mountains in general is not a very diverse region (part of why Pittsburgh faces an uphill battle when it comes to diversifying compared to its peers), and there is a general "working class" vibe to the entire region. The flora and fauna are similar, and so is the weather as well. On the other hand, western Pennsylvania has always been more industrialized than southwestern Virginia, and has never dealt with the quality-of-life problems that southwestern Virginia has either. Income levels and educational attainment rates have always been higher in western Pennsylvania, and rates of poverty, obesity, teen pregnancy, STDs and drug abuse have always been lower.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:42 PM
 
Location: The City
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Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
You can compare Southern states and Northern states. Particularly something like Virginia and PA since they're not so far apart.

I believe they are like 16 miles at their closest point actually
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:09 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
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Both are great states. I would live in either one of them.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Wouldn't it be that settlers moved their way down the road from Pennsylvania into Virginia? I always thought that Appalachian settlement patterns originated in Pennsylvania and moved their way down the spine of the Appalachians before spreading west along the Ohio River and the Tennessee River.

On a related note, I guess you could say the Appalachian South is a blend of Pennsylvania and traditional Southern cultures, and the Mid-South is that same Pennsylvania/traditional Southern blend modified by Midwestern culture.
Philadelphia was the port of entry. It was primarily Scots-Irish (with some English) mixed in during the first wave. I would say there's an Appalachian culture that's not exactly the same as the rest of Pennsylvania. But if you replace "Pennsylvania" with "Appalachian," I'd agree.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Wouldn't it be that settlers moved their way down the road from Pennsylvania into Virginia? I always thought that Appalachian settlement patterns originated in Pennsylvania and moved their way down the spine of the Appalachians before spreading west along the Ohio River and the Tennessee River.
Yes, they moved south. In the Shenandoah Valley of VA, "up the Valley" means you're heading south (because the Shenandoah River flows north). Sorry I used that localism without thinking or explaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
You're basically describing the Mid-Atlantic Piedmont. A lot of people forget that the Piedmont isn't just in the Carolinas and Georgia. It extends all the way north into southeastern Pennsylvania.
You're right about the Piedmont, and you can compare locales along its length. It's similar in that way to the Mid-Atlantic Great Valley region I described.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Yes and no. The Appalachian Mountains in general is not a very diverse region (part of why Pittsburgh faces an uphill battle when it comes to diversifying compared to its peers), and there is a general "working class" vibe to the entire region. The flora and fauna are similar, and so is the weather as well. On the other hand, western Pennsylvania has always been more industrialized than southwestern Virginia, and has never dealt with the quality-of-life problems that southwestern Virginia has either. Income levels and educational attainment rates have always been higher in western Pennsylvania, and rates of poverty, obesity, teen pregnancy, STDs and drug abuse have always been lower.
Interesting points on the differences. Would western PA/Pittsburgh compare more equally with some of the Ohio River cities like Clarksburg, Huntington, etc.? I haven't been to those cities but it would make sense that there would be some similarities (albeit these cities are tiny map dots by comparison of size to Pitt).
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:29 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Originally Posted by lammius View Post
You're right about the Piedmont, and you can compare locales along its length. It's similar in that way to the Mid-Atlantic Great Valley region I described.
To me, there are some cultural differences at both ends of the Piedmont. The entire Piedmont is relatively conservative outside the mass of Washington DC, but the Mid-Atlantic Piedmont just doesn't feel "Southern" to me. I know this might make some Virginians and other Southerners bristle a bit, and it is ironic to say since Richmond was once the capital of the Confederacy, but Virginia has never struck me as a wholly Southern state.

Yes, the Tidewater and "Hampton Roads" regions are undoubtedly Southern, as are the mountains in southwestern Virginia, and also southern Virginia around Richmond and Lynchburg, but once you get to about Harrisonburg, Culpeper or Fredericksburg, it just feels like "Baja Pennsylvania," so to speak, albeit still with a bit of Southern influence. I'd put Charlottesville in the Southern Piedmont region since Monticello is nearby, and Thomas Jefferson owned a great many slaves. Besides, they serve Southern food and sweet tea at the Michie Tavern. (That was my first experience with Southern food, and it was some great stuff. I gotta go back sometime.)

Basically, what Maryland, Delaware, northern West Virginia and northern Virginia are is a transition zone where the culture of Pennsylvania blends with the culture of "quintessential" Virginia. There's a gradient in that zone: the farther north you go, the more Pennsylvanian it becomes, and the farther south you go, the more Virginian it becomes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lammius View Post
Interesting points on the differences. Would western PA/Pittsburgh compare more equally with some of the Ohio River cities like Clarksburg, Huntington, etc.? I haven't been to those cities but it would make sense that there would be some similarities (albeit these cities are tiny map dots by comparison of size to Pitt).
I'd argue that Pittsburgh probably has the most unique culture of any major city east of the Mississippi River outside of Miami and New Orleans. It's kind of a jarring dichotomy, because it's a combination of megalopolitan Mid-Atlantic culture, which is one of the most sophisticated regional cultures in the United States, and Appalachian culture, which is one of the least sophisticated regional cultures in the United States. More broadly, that Mid-Atlantic/Appalachian blend is what differentiates northern Appalachia from central and southern Appalachia, and also defines the interior Northeast.

Mid-Atlantic Pittsburgh shines with regard to its cultural assets and its own contributions to American culture at large. It punches well above its weight with regard to the fine arts, and it's home to the world's first movie theater, drive-thru gas station, commercial radio broadcast, cable TV network, banana split and Big Mac. It's also a major contributor to the history of jazz. How much more American can you get than those things? Furthermore, the polio vaccine was invented in Pittsburgh, and alternating electric current got its start in Pittsburgh as well. Pittsburgh's Mid-Atlantic influences have been mostly positive, and this is just scratching the surface of the city's accomplishments.

On the other hand, Pittsburgh's Appalachian influences have been more of a mixed bag. It's where the city got its do-it-yourself mentality and appreciation of hard work, and it's why people are more approachable, more helpful, and just plain friendlier than they are in the coastal Mid-Atlantic. With that said, the Appalachian influence has also manifested itself among some Pittsburghers in negative forms, like excessive rootedness and parochialism, closed social circles, a general mistrust of outsiders, and a reflexive resistance to change. The people who embody all or most of these traits are often called "yinzers," which is a derogatory term based on the second-person plural "yinz" that working-class Pittsburghers used to use. (Usage of "yinz" has declined markedly in the last 30 years.)

Because of this dichotomy, a lot of people don't really know how to categorize Pittsburgh. People from the coastal Mid-Atlantic know that it's a bit different and that it's located on the other side of the mountains not far from Ohio, so they just assume that its Midwestern, when really, Midwestern influences in Pittsburgh are overstated. There is some influence, but not nearly to the degree that people think. Just because it has some established cultural and economic ties to Cleveland and Columbus doesn't mean that it has similarly established ties to Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, or even Cincinnati. Most people in the Midwest don't consider Pittsburgh to be Midwestern, and many even consider Cleveland and Columbus to be on the fringe themselves.

As I said earlier, Pittsburgh is part of the interior Northeast, which is a crazy blend of the cosmopolitan coastal Mid-Atlantic and the parochial Appalachian Mountains.

Last edited by Craziaskowboi; 02-19-2013 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:16 PM
 
Location: PA/NJ
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Virginia better hands down.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:02 PM
 
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Gnutella can you inform me a little more about this "Row House Belt" excuse me if this is an ignorant question lol but i tried to research it a little and didnt get much results.
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