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Actually, there are always at least a few threads on the Michigan forum at any given time from people who are planning to move there. I know, because I live there and read the forum daily. Ann Arbor in particular attracts people not only from across the country but from around the world. I can't speak for the other midwest states' forums.
A lot of people have the misconception that all of Michigan = Detroit. Gritty, urban, crime-ridden, etc., etc., etc. but many parts of Michigan are at least as nice as the places in the Southwest and Southeast that people are flocking to right now, minus the warm climate. Google Mackinac Island, Traverse City, Holland, Ann Arbor, or Petoskey, to name a few. Kathie Lee Gifford even showed video of a trip that she took to Michigan last year on GMA and said that she would move there in a heartbeat if her husband would, and she couldn't believe how beautiful it was.
It's a shame that peoples' image of Detroit overshadows a state that is actually very beautiful and inviting.
I never understood that either... Maybe it's because I have family all over Michigan and have been more places in Michigan than the average person. What people need to realize is that Detroit has some of the most gorgeous suburbs around, and that the state is jaw-dropping in beauty. The UP too!
When I think of Michigan, the last thing I think about is Detroit.
I think it's economics mainly. The winters are tough, but there are colder places than anywhere in the Midwest (like for example, the vast majority of Canada, and parts of Scandanavia) that are thriving. People will put up with a lot if the economy - and local governance - are right.
I really, really hate cold and dark winters - they seriously depress me, so I would have to think long and hard about a move into that part of the country. There are several cities that I've though about - Minneapolis, Chicago, Columbus, some of the Plains cities. If I had to deal with the winters I know I could - I lived for 12 years in a part of NW North Carolina that due to elevation experiences winters more akin to those in New Hampshire, and went through many blizzards and ice storms (I saw snow in May on a couple occasions), so if I had to I could, but I'd be climbing the walls by March or April.
Folks from the Midwest who like the winters do exist - I know some, and I don't share the same feelings, but I definitely understand them - I have a friend who grew up in Sibley County (and later Mankato) Minnesota, and some of his descriptions of rural Minnesota in the depths of winter almost sound beautiful; I have a friend from Duluth who moved away, and then actually moved back. I'm a native of the South, and the Southern summers that gross everyone else out are heaven to me. So I can understand how some people can and can't acclimate to certain weather extremes.
and 90% of hipsters will eventually grow up and move to the burbs.
I have many friends that were once urban Hippies and Punks (and a few older beatnicks and folkies) that are now living in smaller communities and the burbs.
"hipsters" are an odd lot, though. Lots of scenesters and not a lot of activism or creativity coming out of them.
Or some of us just never hook up, give up, and take our business to the wilderness!!!
Suburbs are okay for the family and such, but I always felt as though the "chronically single" are looked upon with fear in those areas.
its jobs, plain and simple. How many jobs left Detroit and went to Mexico? Thank you NAFTA! The only ones profiting are large corporations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101
Is it just the lack of jobs? Or the quality of life? The weather? Racial animosity? Too expensive? All of the above? Is the reason for population loss specific to each city? Is the 2010 Census data just plain wrong? Where ar these people going? To the suburbs? Out of state?
Is there some overriding reason that would account for the
Loss of 250,000 people in Detroit
Loss of 200,000 in Chicago
Loss of 80,00 in Cleveland
Loss of 40,000 in St. Louis
(For the record of other big Midwestern cities only ones that showed a population gain (small) that I saw were Milwaukee and Minneapolis)
its jobs, plain and simple. How many jobs left Detroit and went to Mexico? Thank you NAFTA! The only ones profiting are large corporations.
Very true. Jobs are what caused Detroit to grow to almost 2 million people back in the 1950s and the lack of jobs is much of what is killing it now. If there were still thousands and thousands of jobs that paid a living wage here, instead of having left for low wage, unskilled places like Mexico and China, the weather would be a distant second in why people choose where to live. NAFTA was and is a piece of crap legislation that has destroyed the very fabric of the Upper Midwest. You can't blame it on any one political party either; Republicans supported it, and Bill Clinton signed it into law. Chalk it up to our politicians in Washington ALL being totally OUT OF TOUCH with middle America.
What you are forgetting is that nearly EVERY SINGLE COUNTY in Michigan has experienced significant job declines since 2000. Declines in manufacturing jobs= reduced wages in the community= reduced consumer spending= other businesses failing. The same is also true for many counties in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois.
But what you said is my exact point. People hear Midwest and think what you stated - some specific areas within the midwest that have seen large manufacturing job loses. My point was that a large majority of people within the Midwest have little or nothing to do with failing industry and manufacturing sectors. Midwest doesn't instantly mean industrial cities in Michigan.
Like I said, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Bismarck, Lincoln, Omaha, Kansas City, Wichita, Springfield, St. Louis, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, Bloomington, Champaign, Indianapolis, Columbus, Fort Wayne, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, Madison, Rochester, etc.
Some of those metros might not be BOOMING, but they're not falling apart and "hopeless". People aren't fleeing those areas in mass. Then you have troubled areas like Detroit, Cleveland, Flint, Gary, etc which get all the attention and are suddenly the poster child for an entire region of over 65 million people. The Midwest is much more dynamic than just "why are people fleeing the midwest". The Midwest might not have mountains, oceans or be the hot ticket in the USA right now - but it's hardly dying. Not saying that you said that or think that, it's just funny how down and out people from the coasts gets about the midwest. Like it's 65 million people sitting around sobbing every day just dying to leave.
Last edited by Chicago60614; 03-26-2011 at 10:02 AM..
Very true. Jobs are what caused Detroit to grow to almost 2 million people back in the 1950s and the lack of jobs is much of what is killing it now. If there were still thousands and thousands of jobs that paid a living wage here, instead of having left for low wage, unskilled places like Mexico and China, the weather would be a distant second in why people choose where to live. NAFTA was and is a piece of crap legislation that has destroyed the very fabric of the Upper Midwest. You can't blame it on any one political party either; Republicans supported it, and Bill Clinton signed it into law. Chalk it up to our politicians in Washington ALL being totally OUT OF TOUCH with middle America.
Lack of jobs is the main reason why the Midwest has been struggling for a long time! Places like NYC and most of the Northeast, while not growing @ a rapid pace like the sunbelt region, are still experiencing modest growth, whereas the population in those Northeast cities are stabilizing! People are moving to the sunbelt region b/c alot of the jobs are relocating there! Weather does play a role, albeit a small role, b/c the winters are just as brutal in New York as it is in Detroit, but New York, offers much more than Detroit in terms of jobs and opportunity! Crime is also a major factor! People are not going to live in a place that is overrun with crime, especially in an economically depressed area, so crime and lack of jobs are the main reasons that are plaguing a lot of these Midwest cities!
But what you said is my exact point. People hear Midwest and think what you stated - some specific areas within the midwest that have seen large manufacturing job loses. My point was that a large majority of people within the Midwest have little or nothing to do with failing industry and manufacturing sectors. Midwest doesn't instantly mean industrial cities in Michigan.
Like I said, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Bismarck, Lincoln, Omaha, Kansas City, Wichita, Springfield, St. Louis, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, Bloomington, Champaign, Indianapolis, Columbus, Fort Wayne, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, Madison, Rochester, etc.
Some of those metros might not be BOOMING, but they're not falling apart and "hopeless". People aren't fleeing those areas in mass. Then you have troubled areas like Detroit, Cleveland, Flint, Gary, etc which get all the attention and are suddenly the poster child for an entire region of over 65 million people. The Midwest is much more dynamic than just "why are people fleeing the midwest". The Midwest might not have mountains, oceans or be the hot ticket in the USA right now - but it's hardly dying. Not saying that you said that or think that, it's just funny how down and out people from the coasts gets about the midwest. Like it's 65 million people sitting around sobbing every day just dying to leave.
I am not disagreeing with those points. The region needs to be split into two separate parts. The Great Lakes region and its agricultural hinterlands of the Midwest core, and the Great Plains region. The two regions are becoming more and more divergent over time in terms of: political, economic, and social factors. The Great Plains cities are definitely more economically diverse and have a "newness" factor that many Great Lakes cities often lack. Out-migration from rural areas across the Great Lakes and Great Plains is accelerating as the urban centres gain greater dominance.
I do think you are underestimating the economic factors of the Great Lakes Midwest as you seem to be simplifying the economic declines as being privy to only the well-known examples like Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Muskegon, Toledo, South Bend, Dayton, etc. The rural counties within the Great Lakes as well as the micropolitan counties that serve ancillary functions to these cities have all suffered major levels of job loss. Look at the quickfacts census data on a county by county basis in the states of Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio to see exactly what I am referring to.
^ Yep, In the 1870's the St. Louis City boundaries were set. St. Louis city proper is very small (~60 square miles) and we haven't annexed any neighboring areas since then.
Bakersfield is also 2x larger by area.
Let me disabuse you of this myth of St. Louis' smallness - which I see time and again as a justification for it's ever shrinking population. There is nothing "small" about St. Louis relative to other similar cities - a number of which are smaller and significantly more vibrant than St. Louis - and which developed in pretty much the same era. Just as a quick set of examples:
- Baltimore - 81 sq. miles.
- Boston - 48 sq. miles
- Buffalo - 41 sq. miles
- Milwaukee - 96 sq. miles
- Minneapolis - 55 sq. miles
- Pittsburgh - 55 sq. miles
- San Francisco - 47 sq. miles
- Washington, DC - 68 sq. miles
St. Louis's problems, like Detroit's, are manifold - too many to discuss appropriately here. But denying them is surely not the solution.
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