Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't think there is Northern culture per se. There are northern ethnic cultures such as northern Irish culture, northern Italian cultures, northern Yiddish/Ashkenazi/Jewish (not sure what the proper term is) culture, and so on. But I can't see any overriding one. Even with something like the Pennsylvania Dutch where you had definite evolution of an old world culture that was dominant over a specific geographic area it more or less died off a long time back.
Everyone has a "culture". Do you bring a bottle of wine when you're invited to someone's house for dinner? Do you arrive on time, or are you "fashionably late"? Are you upfront, or do you beat around the bush? All of that is culture. As for the PA Dutch, they very much keep to themselves (except for purposes of making money off the 'English'), so the culture doesn't get very widely disseminated.
Everyone has a "culture". Do you bring a bottle of wine when you're invited to someone's house for dinner?
No, I don't drink, and if I bought wine I'm sure I'd pick the wrong kind.
Quote:
Do you arrive on time, or are you "fashionably late"?
On time. If they wanted to meet later they'd say so.
Quote:
Are you upfront, or do you beat around the bush?
Depends on the situation.
Quote:
All of that is culture.
So is there some uniform northern culture, or is it a bunch of separate cultures as I put forth?
Quote:
As for the PA Dutch, they very much keep to themselves (except for purposes of making money off the 'English'), so the culture doesn't get very widely disseminated.
Ah, but that is my point. Nowadays it is limited to the Amish. The language and culture used to be widespread throughout Pennsylvania (and possibly some of the surrounding states) regardless of religious affiliation. In many places it was the majority language of the home and of commerce. If I remember correctly the soldiers were even segregated from the English speakers during the US Civil War over fear of confusion due to the language barrier. But all that is lost now.
No, I don't drink, and if I bought wine I'm sure I'd pick the wrong kind.
On time. If they wanted to meet later they'd say so.
Depends on the situation.
So is there some uniform northern culture, or is it a bunch of separate cultures as I put forth?
Ah, but that is my point. Nowadays it is limited to the Amish. The language and culture used to be widespread throughout Pennsylvania (and possibly some of the surrounding states) regardless of religious affiliation. In many places it was the majority language of the home and of commerce. If I remember correctly the soldiers were even segregated from the English speakers during the US Civil War over fear of confusion due to the language barrier. But all that is lost now.
I've lived in several "northern" states, and in various cities in those states. (PA, MD, IL, NY, DE) I did not find any noticeable difference in culture in any of those states. The biggest differences were big city vs smaller city/small town, and those had more to do with hours that places were open, things like that. I've also lived in CA and CO, and I've never noticed any big differences there, either. Oh, some places are more conservative politcally and such, but that's country-wide.
Pennsylvania Dutch is not German. Please provide some links that document what you've said. I'm from Pennsy and I never heard of that. Have heard of German language newspapers and the like in WI, IL, and MO (St. Louis).
My grandfather fought in the Civil War for the Wisconsin infantry; claimed not to speak or understand English, but the rest of the family has their doubts about that.
\Pennsylvania Dutch is not German. Please provide some links that document what you've said. I'm from Pennsy and I never heard of that. Have heard of German language newspapers and the like in WI, IL, and MO (St. Louis).
Descended from it, but not German true. Don't think I ever said it was. You could find German newspapers in Texas and I think some of the Plains states until WWII when it became unwise to be identified too closely with Germany. The first link below talks about the language's widespread use at parts and the fact that originally the Amish were a small fraction of this language and culture (you'll have to skim through as it is mostly about the language as a language not its history). The second link talks later on about the non-Amish Pennsylvania Dutch.
My grandfather fought in the Civil War for the Wisconsin infantry; claimed not to speak or understand English, but the rest of the family has their doubts about that.
I've read Wisconsin had a lot of places that were mostly or entirely French speakers for a time, but there is a Wisconsin county in the map above showing the places with the highest percentages of Pennsylvania Dutch speakers. Maybe your grandfather was in one of these groups?
Descended from it, but not German true. Don't think I ever said it was. You could find German newspapers in Texas and I think some of the Plains states until WWII when it became unwise to be identified too closely with Germany. The first link below talks about the language's widespread use at parts and the fact that originally the Amish were a small fraction of this language and culture (you'll have to skim through as it is mostly about the language as a language not its history). The second link talks later on about the non-Amish Pennsylvania Dutch.
I've read Wisconsin had a lot of places that were mostly or entirely French speakers for a time, but there is a Wisconsin county in the map above showing the places with the highest percentages of Pennsylvania Dutch speakers. Maybe your grandfather was in one of these groups?
I have never heard of there being significant numbers of French speakers in WI. The French did explore WI early on, but did not settle.
No, my great-grandfather was from suburban Milwaukee (Cedarbur). I don't get that map. Most people in Wisconsin consider themselves Wisconsinites, not Pennsylvanians. Maybe that map is talking about Amish, not PA Dutch. There really is no such thing as "Pennsylvania Dutch", it's a kind of slang term that non-Amish use.
This article explains the German heritage of Wisconsin quite well.
My mother's parents, and one of her grandparents, were all born in the US (Wisconsin), yet she grew up speaking German and did not speak English until she went to school. She never called it "PA Dutch".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
