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Old 05-09-2011, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,572,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
In Australia, it's common for other ethnic groups, even those that are second or third generation or whatever, to refer to White Anglo-Saxon Australians as 'Australians' and themselves as Italian, Asian.etc, even though these people are Australian too! Not all do, but quite a few. It's because the stereotypical Aussie is some stockman or blonde surfer, and because of the White Australia Policy, immigration was restricted alot until recently.

But in America, a Black American, an Italian American or an Asian American are all equally 'American', at least it seems that way. Do you ever hear anyone refer specifically to white Americans of northern European ancestry as being 'American', with the implication that other groups are somehow 'less' American? In effect they are making some sort of distinction, either because they don't feel as accepted or want to distance themselves from mainstream Aussie culture. It annoys me, because it subtlely implies that they are the 'most' Australian, or are 'more' Australian. Of course compared to the aborigines/native Americans they are just as much immigrants.
Never, and it wouldn't make sense since the black families have been in the US far longer than a huge huge percentage (probably the majority) of whites or their ancestors.

The closest I've heard is a radical far-right friend of mine who refuses to acknowledge non-white or non-blacks as Americans. If your last name is Gonzalez: not American. If you are from Hawaii: not American, Regardless of if your father came here or if your great-great-great-great grandfather was in the Civil War. He insists he isn't racist though! Thats the closest example I can think of, and his views aren't to popular with pretty much anyone.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:47 PM
 
5,393 posts, read 6,690,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Do you ever hear anyone refer specifically to white Americans of northern European ancestry as being 'American', with the implication that other groups are somehow 'less' American?
We have some people who try to make this point by referring to parts of America where whites are much more the majority as being "real America" with "real American values", as contrasted with more racially and ethnically diverse parts of the country which we are then to assume are "less" or "not real" American.

While I haven't personally heard people express the view that black Americans are not fully American, I have witnessed many, many times the assumption that Asians or Latinos are not American, but instead are visitors or recent immigrants, even if the person in question was born here as were their parents and grandparents. It's not as if the speaker is explicitly denying the possibility that such a person can be American, but their mindset seems to be that at first glance, all Asians or Latinos are foreigners.
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Boston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
America is an extraordinarily bigoted country. So when people think or say "Americans" they are thinking of White People. It really doesn't matter if most Black and all Indeginious cultures have been in the Americas long before Europeans immigration surges in 1800-1900s. Whites run the show and dictate who is and who isn't a real American.

This photo says a lot!
That totally depends on where you live, I see you live in St "Louie", which I assume is St Louis which I don't know. But anyway, in all the places I've lived, when anyone said American it always, always included black and white people at the least, Asians and hispanics too. I've only seen a few exceptions as I've grown up like not including Mexicans but still including other hispanics when that really became a national issue, and not including Middle Easterners after 9/11, and both of those were still only from a few people.

The only major one that stands out to me is that they spent so much time teaching us about Native Americans in school when we were little that I find a lot of people end up tending not to think of them as just American.

I was told that Scotch Irish whites in the South identify themselves as just American, do they or any other groups exclude different people around there?
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:53 PM
 
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Amish people call all non-Amish Americans "English" (as you will notice in the 1980's Hollywood movie "Witness".)
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:02 PM
 
958 posts, read 1,379,035 times
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I noticed that most White folks in the U.S see themselves as American first and White second. Where most Black folks in the U.S will see themselves as Black first and American second.

Your average Black American would feel more comfortable at a party where everybody is Jamaican and they are the token American than they would at a party where everybody is a White American and they are the token Black.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
I noticed that most White folks in the U.S see themselves as American first and White second. Where most Black folks in the U.S will see themselves as Black first and American second.

Your average Black American would feel more comfortable at a party where everybody is Jamaican and they are the token American than they would at a party where everybody is a White American and they are the token Black.
I don't think you have enough knowledge to make that assertion.

That would be like me saying that your average white American would rather be at a party with people from, say, Germany, than at a party where everyone is a black American. Then again, during World War II, white Americans afforded German prisoners of war more privileges and human dignity than they did the African Americans who helped guard them. If that's not evidence of Whites seeing themselves as White first and American second, I don't know what is.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:45 PM
 
958 posts, read 1,379,035 times
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Lucario where would you personally feel more comfortable, being the token American at a party where everybody is Jamaican or being the token Black at a party where everybody is White but atleast they are American just like you ?
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
Lucario where would you personally feel more comfortable, being the token American at a party where everybody is Jamaican or being the token Black at a party where everybody is White but atleast they are American just like you ?
I'm comfortable anywhere I go. I have been in both situations. Doesn't matter to me either way.
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Tampa - St. Louis
1,154 posts, read 1,865,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missRoxyhart View Post
That totally depends on where you live, I see you live in St "Louie", which I assume is St Louis which I don't know. But anyway, in all the places I've lived, when anyone said American it always, always included black and white people at the least, Asians and hispanics too. I've only seen a few exceptions as I've grown up like not including Mexicans but still including other hispanics when that really became a national issue, and not including Middle Easterners after 9/11, and both of those were still only from a few people.

The only major one that stands out to me is that they spent so much time teaching us about Native Americans in school when we were little that I find a lot of people end up tending not to think of them as just American.

I was told that Scotch Irish whites in the South identify themselves as just American, do they or any other groups exclude different people around there?
Like I said White People determine who is and who isn't a "Real American" in St. Louis and every other city, town, and village in this country. Blacks are generally only considered "American" when it is politically or socially convenient for mainstream White society (ex. military service or Olympics). All you have to do is look at how many White leaders have been harassing our president about his legitimacy as an American citizen. People seem to forget that Black Americans are the only ethnicity that didn't choose to come to this country. So even though we have earned the right to be here through blood, sweat, and tears. Our Americanism will always be questioned.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:44 PM
 
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To the OP yes America does have this problem by the census it been well noted that many southern conservative whites mark American, the problem is they often think they’re essentially American. Chances are very few of these people can speak or care about a native American language. So I guess native Americans are being un or less American if they can? Yes, we all American so they should start marking white, and not American. Imagine if every Christian in American say there religious was American instead of Christian, then every one else is view as less American or deviant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
We have some people who try to make this point by referring to parts of America where whites are much more the majority as being "real America" with "real American values", as contrasted with more racially and ethnically diverse parts of the country which we are then to assume are "less" or "not real" American.
Exactly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
I noticed that most White folks in the U.S see themselves as American first and White second. Where most Black folks in the U.S will see themselves as Black first and American second.
No I view myself as black and American, whites are the morjority and has dominate American culture. So many whites end up thinking they're ethnic-less, or make American there ethnicity but still relate everything cultural towards them. This can cause every one else to be view as less American or deviant. Other wise blacks are not saying there American 2nd, some whites define American cultually like them so to some whites blacks are trying to be American 2nd.

LMAO hell most white Americans didn't notice Friends was so white, but let a sitcom pop up starting majority blacks "it's a black show" which is bad right? but Friends was just so raceless and just American. ) The diversity of America is American.
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