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Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,539,156 times
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Let's see if I can convey this properly...
I grew up in rural New York in the southern tier. Sometimes considered part of "Appalachia", though not often.
I have always considered New York and Pennsylvania to be very, very close in cultures and topography and even climate. As a child I made several trips into PA, as from where I lived I could have walked to it every day. And I always loved our neighbor to the south as much as my home state.
While I am going to initially focus on the aspects of rural NY and PA, feel free to discuss and compare urban culture as well.
I am one of those silly people who wear the title Hillbilly as a badge. In my experiences in the bottom of the Northeast I grew up around many country folk. Both NY and PA offer vast hunting and fishing opportunities, NASCAR racing culture, Mennonite culture, Amish culture (The people who thought Mennonites were too loose and broke away ) and yes, hillbilly/redneck culture.
Both NY and PA also sit firmly in the Appalachian mountains and plateaus, as well as they share a touch of Great Lakes culture, with certain areas of both states having been compared closely to the eastern Midwest. Both states also have pockets of poverty.
Some people however, seem to think that NY and PA have little to nothing in common. I hope to correct that as well as seriously discuss and consider the reasons why some folks feel they are different.
Bear in mind that I love both of these states very much, and have been to many places within them. From my point of view, there are far more things in common than otherwise between them.
Please feel free to share your thoughts! I know there isn't much of a question here; I aim to strike up a conversation.
What do you think? Where do you stand on the two? Do you think Pa has more in common with the south? Do you think NY has more in common with Canada? Or do you agree with me for the most part?
The biggest difference is that NY has an actual ocean coastline
Both are largely more rural dotted with small towns in the mountains and both have by far their largest and most populated area in their extreme SE portion of the state. Both have a great lake in their NW portion. Both technically border Canada but NY has a significantly larger association and connection.
Also both Have their two largest cities on the eastern and western edge of the states
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,539,156 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
The biggest difference is that NY has an actual ocean coastline
Both are largely more rural dotted with small towns in the mountains and both have by far their largest and most populated area in their extreme SE portion of the state. Both have a great lake in their NW portion. Both technically border Canada but NY has a significantly larger association and connection.
I suppose. Though Long Island always seemed like a completely different state.
I think it tried to become one once.
Either way, due to NYC and location, NY has a very small coast line. Most of the state is inland or on lake Ontario. I think NY might have a smaller coast line than every coastal state south of it.
Edit: Good start!
It's true about the major cities. I never noticed that they were both in the SE extremes.
Both have Rust-belt cities as well.
Last edited by CookieSkoon; 05-19-2011 at 09:22 PM..
Reason: Had to update the quote X3
I grew up in rural New York in the southern tier. Sometimes considered part of "Appalachia", though not often.
I have always considered New York and Pennsylvania to be very, very close in cultures and topography and even climate. As a child I made several trips into PA, as from where I lived I could have walked to it every day. And I always loved our neighbor to the south as much as my home state.
While I am going to initially focus on the aspects of rural NY and PA, feel free to discuss and compare urban culture as well.
I am one of those silly people who wear the title Hillbilly as a badge. In my experiences in the bottom of the Northeast I grew up around many country folk. Both NY and PA offer vast hunting and fishing opportunities, NASCAR racing culture, Mennonite culture, Amish culture (The people who thought Mennonites were too loose and broke away ) and yes, hillbilly/redneck culture.
Both NY and PA also sit firmly in the Appalachian mountains and plateaus, as well as they share a touch of Great Lakes culture, with certain areas of both states having been compared closely to the eastern Midwest. Both states also have pockets of poverty.
Some people however, seem to think that NY and PA have little to nothing in common. I hope to correct that as well as seriously discuss and consider the reasons why some folks feel they are different.
Bear in mind that I love both of these states very much, and have been to many places within them. From my point of view, there are far more things in common than otherwise between them.
Please feel free to share your thoughts! I know there isn't much of a question here; I aim to strike up a conversation.
What do you think? Where do you stand on the two? Do you think Pa has more in common with the south? Do you think NY has more in common with Canada? Or do you agree with me for the most part?
Please; discuss.
In all the times I have traveled to Pa and NY I have never felt they were very much like the south, or the midwest. Just because a small part of Pa touches the eastern fringes of the great lakes does not make Pa like Illinois or Michigan. THe fact that the appalachians run through NY does not make it like Virginia. The interior northeast is kind of unique and hard to compare to other regions. It is however squarly part of the northeast, and northeastern culture.
NY is broken up into pockets IMO. And some of them I am only passingly aware of and others not at all.
I'm from the Mohawk Valley area near Utica and growing up and to this day that area just seems normal to me. No real extremes in any direction.
But now I live near Syracuse and to me this area is EXTREMELY inbred/redneck. 99% of my conversations with the locals end with me saying one of three things and walking away,
"No I did not see the race this Sunday!!"
"I don't know if she's hot, she's my sister"
"No, I don't know where you can score some meth"
NASCAR, inbreeding and meth are just a blur of redneck culture around here. And since very few strangers dare enter this area and they never leave they have no idea how close they are to being in Wrong Turn.
If the Civil War started today General Lee would have some of his best troops right in the middle of NY.
Just the other day I was gonna bet somebody that didn't think CNY was a hotbed of inbreeding to be able to tell the difference between Sylvan Beach and Apalachicola once Summer gets going.
So in closing I don't know much about Pa but the area around Syracuse is very much a part of the worst parts of the deep South. So if Pa isn't part of the inbreeding/meth/NASCAR culture then they are surrounded.
For the record while I am of coarse trying to offend the white trash that lives around Syracuse I actually in no way mean to offend the people of the South who I have found to be good people and the bunt of many jokes by a bunch of Yankee trash that ain't got not business looking down on anyone.
I've had quite a lot of business activities in rural areas in both NY and PA. Both states have a number of regional divisions in culture, economy, and outlook. Central/western NY has certainly a greater chasm in outlook compared to the NYC metro, than rural PA has even to Philadelphia.
Historically most of the Northern Tier counties of PA were settled by younger sons of New England just as Central and Western NY largely was. Older homes and town settlements in northern PA look more like their NY counterparts (they have larger lot sizes, bigger setbacks from roads, less alley circulation/more direct driveways, gambrel-roofed barns, etc.) than central and southeastern PA that has more of the Pennsylvania German and Scots-Irish influences (houses on top of the roads in town and farm, alleys, bank barns, etc.)
Local economic ties for the Twin Tiers generally centered on Binghamton, Elmira, Olean, Jamestown since these larger (small, but larger) and better connected (through the Erie Railroad) cities were on the NY side.
Up to about ten or maybe five years ago newspaper-tube geography was a useful way of gauging the economic ties of a rural area. You would find Elmira Star-Gazette tubes throughout northeast Potter County, northern two-thirds of Tioga County PA, and northwest Bradford County overlapping in some areas the Corning Leader which you would find in a few townships of northern Tioga. The Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin would be seen in most of Susquehanna County except for the far southern edges. By some contrast you would find Sayre Evening Times tubes in the southwest half of Tioga County NY.
As the economy of upstate NY has declined relative to the Northeast Corridor I think the relative hold of the NY cities on the PA hinterland has loosened too. Such places as Arnot PA (a patch town owned originally by the Arnot family interests of Elmira) due to new highway construction are "closer" to Williamsport than they were in the past, too.
There certainly are a few differences between NY and PA that go right up to the border. PA property tax burdens are considerably less so I think more of the old original families have been able to hang onto their land in PA vs. in NY. The socially and fiscally conservative people in PA are not necessarily any less so immediately over the NY border but they have a greater voice in PA state politics than in NY state politics.
Land use regulation has evolved somewhat differently in the last 30 years in the two states, the current state of Marcellus Shale gas development is an extreme example. However one sees a number of base facilities of the gas companies and gas service companies moving in close to the I-86 corridor even on the higher taxed NY side so obviously they see this situation as a temporary hiccup.
Wow , some excellent points , great thread. I do agree new york , once you get past say like west point area is very much like pennsylvania. The people, the landscape, the climate... all very similar. And pennsylvania once outside of the philly and pittsburgh area is pretty much the same too.
I'm glad to hear someone say they are proud to be a hillbilly or a redneck , they say it here in chambersburg pa where i am , and people think i'm insulting them if i say it. They say pensyltucky here too. I didn't make up these words , they use them and are proud of them and their heritage. Just as ny'ers are ok with saying we are rude and always in a hurry .
The taxes are higher in NY, but i have found that you get what you pay for in taxes. I would much rather pay $1000 more a year if they could clear the roads better in the snow and ice. And the schools could use a little improving too. I'm not sure how the schools are in upstate NY ?? anyone know that?
I know that with the marcellus shale that pennsylvania is the only state not taxing them.
Pennsylvania now has the castle doctrine and less strict gun laws.
Pennsylvania doesn't report the mentally ill to the state either, so they can own guns.
Politics , I know in my area is more conservative, but as a whole i think both states are comparable, with the city areas being more democratic and the country areas being more republican.
I'd better correct this... pennsylvania doesn't report the mentally ill to the federal system, so a mentally ill pennsylvanian can go to another state and buy certain types of guns. (from something that happened in my area , i read about this loophole)
I would have to say that central PA is more conservative by a noticeable margin than central NY which is more of a "purple" area. The western southern tier of NY away from the colleges is probably just as conservative as adjacent northern tier PA but I'd say the northern tier of PA is still not as conservative as west-south-central PA.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,539,156 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean®
NY is broken up into pockets IMO. And some of them I am only passingly aware of and others not at all.
I'm from the Mohawk Valley area near Utica and growing up and to this day that area just seems normal to me. No real extremes in any direction.
But now I live near Syracuse and to me this area is EXTREMELY inbred/redneck. 99% of my conversations with the locals end with me saying one of three things and walking away,
"No I did not see the race this Sunday!!"
"I don't know if she's hot, she's my sister"
"No, I don't know where you can score some meth"
NASCAR, inbreeding and meth are just a blur of redneck culture around here. And since very few strangers dare enter this area and they never leave they have no idea how close they are to being in Wrong Turn.
If the Civil War started today General Lee would have some of his best troops right in the middle of NY.
Just the other day I was gonna bet somebody that didn't think CNY was a hotbed of inbreeding to be able to tell the difference between Sylvan Beach and Apalachicola once Summer gets going.
So in closing I don't know much about Pa but the area around Syracuse is very much a part of the worst parts of the deep South. So if Pa isn't part of the inbreeding/meth/NASCAR culture then they are surrounded.
For the record while I am of coarse trying to offend the white trash that lives around Syracuse I actually in no way mean to offend the people of the South who I have found to be good people and the bunt of many jokes by a bunch of Yankee trash that ain't got not business looking down on anyone.
Yeah... You ever watch Deliverance and think, "They didn't have to put this in the south"? XD
Just look at some of the places between Seneca and Cayuga lakes even. Traverse the outskirts of Trumansburg and Mecklenburg. I lived there in 2003. Quite the hickish area. Some real friendly folks though. Everybody pretty much knew everybody.
My mother once worked at a Dollar General up in Waterloo. Nearly every customer would shout "Git 'er done!" and play with the Larry the Cable Guy lighters. Most of them were dressed in either camo or oily overalls.
As far as that General Lee comment. I actually agree. Most of the people I knew growing up decorated their living rooms with Confederate flags, even though most of them were native New Yorkers. My own brother does this.
On the flip side, I know some hardcore hicks who talk badly of the south. My Grandfather for example. But he was a trucker and had something against Tennessee for it's laws or something. I don't remember. He would be an example of the hypocritical white trash you speak of. Most things he complains of about the south, he, himself, does. Overall he's a very prejudiced man.
Step away from the tourist attractions, major highways and urban centers, and New York transforms into a different creature entirely.
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) and yes, hillbilly/redneck culture.
