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Oh give me a break. Obviously you have a chip on your shoulder about Utica and are clearly one of those philistines who dismiss entire regional dialects as "BS" because you can't comprehend anyone who doesn't talk exactly like you as having any worth. .
My grandfather was from New York (the Bronx) so I know what the various New York accents sound like (I also had relatives in Queens and Brooklyn in addition to the aforementioned New Englanders), I've also been around western New York and know that the accent dissipates rather quickly the further you get from the city. I have a very hard time believing that Utica is a bastion of various new york city accents.
The mob ran Utica for about 50 years. Its known for having the largest population of Italians outside of NYC.
The solid blue you see in the center of NY state is Oneida County, which holds the city of Utica. From the 1920s onward through the 70s it was essentially a satellite city of NYC because of the mob connections. Utica Club beer was the first beer sold after the Prohibition in the 20s. If you know a damned thing about the mob you'd know it got alot of activity from the prohibition.
Utica has alot of NYC rejects, and the largest refugee center in the Northeast.
Should I mention the sheer diversity of Utica or do I need other members to explain?
Italians, Irish, Bosnians, Poles, Russians, African Americans, Vietnamese, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and Lebanese are among the more well known in a city of just 60,000. The city school district lists 32 languages spoken.
The reason being not only for immigrants but for NYC rejects is because its the cheapest part of the state (and poorest).
The accents that run through Utica mainly stem from the large, and I mean LARGE Italian influence on the city.
Just tell me when and ill get the facts buddy. I'm tellin you right now, you're dead wrong.
I would define "Middle American" as everything except the Boston-Washington corridor, the Deep South, the areas on the Mexican border, and the Pacific states. This definition will include rural areas of eastern states like Pennsylvania and Maryland and upstate New York as well as mountain states like Colorado and Idaho. Colorado has always felt like a very "middle" state with its images of suburbia and the dominance of military installations and evangelical Christians.
Theres only 2 hours between Albany and NYC/Boston. It retains alot of the flavor and feeling of both. I wouldn't exactly consider it Midwest by ANY means.
I think that all of the states that are in the broad term of Midwest states belong there. In the Midwest you have the sub division of the Great Plains and Great Lakes. I do realize that the great plains extends south into Oklahoma Texas etc. but that's not Midwest. Part of the very eastern Colorado, Wyoming and maybe Montana could be called the Midwest. The Midwest is also home to the best farming land in the world so including that in the definition helps define the boundary.
Even the Great Lakes states are on plains they are the Central Plains in case anyone has forgotten.
Living in the Midwest I like having the biggest part of the country and having it be so vast. Even though southern parts of states such as Missouri, Illinois and Indiana may have a southern feel. Alaska and Hawaii are considered west and they are as different as they come.
i know that the boundaries of the midwest usually correspond to the boundaries of the states of ohio, indiana, illinois, missouri, michigan, minnesota, wisconsin, iowa, the dakotas, kansas and nebraska, but what if states did not exist per say? what if the midwest were defined by characteristics such as archetecture, accent, terrain, race and ancestry?
1)would the great plains states like nebraska and kansas be part of the same region as the great lakes and interior lowland states? or would they be considered part of the "cowboy" west because of all the ranchland and rocky badlands? maybe the line could be drawn somewhere in the middle of the great plains?
2) would the prairie parts of eastern colorado, montana and wyoming be considered midwest?
3) what about the so-called "upper midwest "(north wisconsin, minnesota, the michigan upper peninsula, north dakota, parts of s. dakota and east montana)? can this even be considered part of the same region as chicago/detroit due to its unique scandonavian-influenced culture/accent, its heavily wooded/coniferous areas and its general "plaid-wearing canada-junior" atmosphere?
4)what about erie, pa and buffalo ny? buffalo, while part of ny state, is far from the atlantic ocean and is part of the great lakes port system like chicago and detroit. it even shares the same nasal accent as chicago and detroit. like midwestern cities, buffalo is an industrial center with a history of german and polish immigration.
5)can pittsburgh be considered midwest? it , like buffalo, is also far from the atlantic, has a history of germanic immigration and is a major industrial center although like atlantic cities, it seems to have alot of rowhouses.
6) where does the "south" begin? is all of west virginia and kentucky "southern" what about oklahoma? is it southern, midwestern of a "great plains/western state? or southwestern? maybe it can be divided into differant parts? ive heard that in southern illinois and indiana, people have southern accents?
7) is kansas city more "western" in culture than "midwestern"? does it have more of an evangelical/rodeo texas-infleuenced culture than say indianapolis or chicago?
8) is st louis more "southern" with its jazz and riverboat culture and french archetecture? or is it a "border city"? are the ozarks firmly part of the south? what about the little dixie region of missouri?
9) where does the east coast infleunce begin? is rochester ny eastern? or a hybrid city? i would say oswego ny has that colonial british/new england-ish look that eastern cities have...even lockport ny to some degree
10)if canada suddenly decided to become part of the same country as the usa, what parts of it would become part of the midwest? i would assume southwest ontario, near detroit is very midwestern/german-immigrant-farmer influenced. toronto seems alot like chicago and hamilton, like pittsburgh or buffalo. however i would say, anywhere east of toronto, port hope, kingston, belleville has more of a colonial/british eastern feel. northern ontario and manitoba feel alot like the upper midwest with all the snow, pine trees and plaid-wearing lumberjack hoser stereotypes. saskatchewan is similar to the great plains in topography, but would probably be more similar to the upper midwest in its labor/union-influenced culture
this is a map of what i perceive the regions should be...do you agree? i would appreciate any feedback/criticism
Where is the picture? I know I'm a little late to read this....
5)can pittsburgh be considered midwest? it , like buffalo, is also far from the atlantic, has a history of germanic immigration and is a major industrial center although like atlantic cities, it seems to have alot of rowhouses.
Pittsburgh also has one of the largest Italian populations in the country. And with the exception of NYC metro, has the largest concentration of Italians of any major U.S. city.
In addition, when it comes to row housing, I don't understand how some people won't accept that that style of housing is dominant on the East Coast. Now with the exception of San Francisco, there is no city in the U.S. that has a substantial row house presence. Period. So quit showing us Butte, Montana. At Pittsburgh's peak, one third of our population was concentrated in the row house neighborhoods. Hey a similarity to the East Coast! Yet, even beyond this, the actual layout of the city--the narrowness of the roads, row housing along alleyways, is so similar to the East Coast it is, in my mind, undeniable.
Now, obviously there are parts of the city that may not "feel" like the East Coast...so what! Boston doesn't feel like Philly to me. The truth is that Pittsburgh is both the East Coast and Appalachia. Or as hillside put it perfectly--East Coast-Appalachia.
Pittsburgh = 50% East Coast; 50% Appalachia; 100% Northeastern.
Eh. If you don't like the midwest, move somewhere else.... Like everyone else from the region and most if not all of the engineers, doctors, lawyers and accountants on the east and west coasts
It seems like all the people from Pittsburgh in here have a superiority complex over the midwest. If that isn't northeastern, then what is?
If you work with someone who keeps getting your name wrong you might be irritated by it. It's not that you don't like the name they're calling you, it's that they've missed who you are.
People from Pittsburgh never considered themselves Midwestern...it is not even a thought that goes through our minds, so when we here misinformed people on this site calling us Midwestern, it is a tad bit annoying.
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