Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-23-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,472 posts, read 3,545,803 times
Reputation: 1583

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Because the world began in 1492 and White people invented everything!!

Demographically the first cowboys were an eclectic mix of Mexican, Black, Native American, and White. I guess all the Wild West tv shows of the 1950s where the entire cast was White changed that perception.
Early movies and TV shows had very little ethnic or racial diversity - it wasn't just Westerns. Plus from the 20th century on what few Cowboys were left were primarily Anglo except in a few SW areas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-23-2011, 05:12 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,549,608 times
Reputation: 6790
It's odd to bring up 1492 as there really couldn't be cowboys in the Americas before 1492 because the indigenous people did not have domesticated cattle. Unless the person meant that Spain may have had cowboys before then, but the Spanish are "white people."

Interesting thing that came to my mind on the Old-World and cow-folk. As I recall from French class "Bouvier" means "cow-herder." So Jacqueline Bouvier was Jacqueline Cow-herder or maybe "Jackie Cowboy"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2011, 06:50 PM
 
10,239 posts, read 19,601,490 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Texas cowboys adopted their trade from Mexican vaqueros, but the accents were generally based on the southern type.
Not exactly true, ScoPro, in terms of origins and trade and habits. The prototype of the Texas cowboy as really existed, was a direct decendent of the Old South cattle drover, and adopted their habit from such. Which would only make sense as most of the same -- during the real frontier west cattle boom era -- were either ex-Confederate soldiers or sons of the same. While the Mexican vaquero influence was certainly there in the very early days and to some extent, it was not the dominating influence. Terry Jordan's great work "Trails to Texas: The Southern roots of Western Cattle Ranching" is a great and very extensive work on this. The average Texas cowboy was a Southerner with Southern attitudes and lifestyles and attitudes, not a Mexican of the vaquero herding and tending tradition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2011, 07:00 PM
 
10,239 posts, read 19,601,490 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily0fthevalley View Post
Back to the original point -

Many of the early "Western" actors came out of the Wild West Shows (101 ranch, Buffalo Bill & Pawnee Bill shows), and were originally from Oklahoma and Texas. That created an expectation in films that "cowboys" would have the accent from those regions.

And most of the current country music singers who wear cowboy hats (although real cowboys are very irritated by these bozos who keep their hats on inside) are from southern states.

Several years ago I went to the annual Cowboy Poetry gathering in Elko, NV - many of those folks, who ARE actual cowboys, do seem to have adopted a slow drawly way of speaking. Even though many of them were from Nevada and Idaho. Maybe they were just conforming to an expected speech pattern for performance sake?

Remember dimwit Junior Bush's accent? I always wondered why he affected that accent since he grew up primarily in Connecticut and went to prep school and Yale. I think he adopted that fakie Texas "cowboy" accent so that idiots would think he was "ordinary folk" and thus vote for him.
This post pretty much hits the nail on the head (backed up with what a few other posters above have noted). Starting with that it stemmed quite a bit from "show biz" and Hollywood movies and such. That is, the expectation that, what with Texas cowboys talking Southern (naturally true given the roots and state), and cowboys associated with Texas, then when the "western movie" came along, there just seemed to be something of "life imitating art" that caused cowboys, whether in movies or rodeo circuit, to adopt a certain "Southern" way of speaking....even if it wasn't at all their natural dialect!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2011, 08:35 PM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,394,193 times
Reputation: 11042
Western and Southern drawls are relict British accents from the late 1600s and early 1700s. They've been modified a bit over the years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2011, 06:16 PM
 
12 posts, read 25,062 times
Reputation: 12
I found this blog by accident and yes, it is interesting. I would say your post is very accurate. People from the South's accents are derived from Scotland and parts of England obviously. Some of the word choices and even the word yall is of Scottish roots just not of modern Scottish times. I would add that I think most states that historically were Southern in terms of first real pioneers like Arizona and Missouri have basically lost their identities because of all the folks from the big cities like Chicago moving there. If you look at all of the people who swear that these states are not Southern or were never places where Southerners migrated to, their American heritage probably does not go back very far back. It just amazes me how people can say that certain states like Missouri, Maryland, and yes even Arizona were never Southern. Maryland is full of people from New Jersey originally and I am sure if you ask most folks from Maryland they will say it is not a Southern state. Gosh, I am from North Florida, and many do not even feel my state is Southern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2011, 11:22 PM
 
1,201 posts, read 2,346,470 times
Reputation: 717
it is a bit odd, but in tn there are three grand divisions of the state: west, middle, and east. on first impression, west tn is the real urban tn because of memphis and its metro. even though west tn has a number of towns and cities out of metro memphis, it is mainly rural, w/ counties having a county seat of a few thousand or two or three towns of a few thousand. several cities of 10,000 to 20,000, and one metro area of two counties 60 miles from memphis. it has about 165,000 in its msa, and a csa of about 184,000. west tn is a sportsmans area for fishing and hunting various wildlife. many recreational and wildlife areas and large farms.

after you cross the tn river, you enter middle tn. again, a good deal of rural area and pretty much the same county-county seat setup. nashville is slightly north of the geographical area of tennessee, murfreesboro, which is about 45 miles southeast of nashville. nashville is a country music venue, as most people in the u.s. know. it has the grand ole opry, recording studios, and other entertainment venues. because of the kinds of music that is recorded from there, country music is often perceived as a mix of western music, e.g. sons of the pioneers, and the country music greats "drown in your beer" music, which was in the 50's, 60's, and 70's a very different genre of music. today, it is a mix of more modern clothes, cowboy hats, boots, and a definite country twang, seemingly more evident w/ the country male singers. the flashy customs that were western and cowboy themed have pretty much been replaced w/ an updated look of suede, leather, and more modern fabrics.

gospel music is big in and around the nashville area through alabama and kentucky. it is big business, and a great deal of recording for this kind of music is completed in nashville. many of these groups have kept customs and particular hairstyles, usually seen in penecostal churches. middle tn natives have a definite dialect. it moves from a twang sound around the duck river area into nashville. then a mixture of drawls and long, flat vowels. as you get to the cumberland plateau you hear more and more of the hill country dialect and the Appalachian brogue. cowboy hats, chaps, western shirts, and boots are seen in this area, along w/ leather vests. a good deal of the area around shelbyville, tn, as well as other places, are horse farms. this area is where the tn walking horses are raised and bred.
chattanooga and knoxville have similar dialects, if not the same. past knoxville and in to sevier county you begin to hear a distinctive hill country dialect, stresses on certain vowels, and the use of certain words, particularly verbs and adverbs. this dialect becomes even more evident as you continue to the end of the state, where you enter into bristol, va or set course to north carolina. from beginning to end, west to east, one travels roughly 508 miles. the cowboy influence is not as evident in the east division, as it is in middle tn. again, much of the cowboy perception comes from the music industry in middle tn, but certainly, the horse industry influences the use of cowboy hats, jeans, western shirts, chaps, and cowboy boots---oh yes, and the horse. rodeos are sort of a big thing in the areas described below.

there are riding shows and competitions that require a completely different dress code. depending on the event, it varies greatly. i like watching the polo matches and jumps that you see so much of in the hudson valley and the north blueridge area in va.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2011, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Clovis Strong, NM
3,376 posts, read 6,103,490 times
Reputation: 2031
I'm going to go along with the stereotype option.
After watching a fair-share of cowboy flicks, I would have to say that I generally think of most cowboys having a voice akin to Mr Wilford DIABEETUS Brimley. And that guy's from Utah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,093,968 times
Reputation: 1028
Texas if I recall was the first Western state. My guess is that has something to do with it. I've heard southern sounding accents as far north as Cody, Wyoming. I'm completely not kidding either. The guy I talked to was born and raised in Cody, and he said "y'all."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,093,968 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by hucky27 View Post
I found this blog by accident and yes, it is interesting. I would say your post is very accurate. People from the South's accents are derived from Scotland and parts of England obviously. Some of the word choices and even the word yall is of Scottish roots just not of modern Scottish times. I would add that I think most states that historically were Southern in terms of first real pioneers like Arizona and Missouri have basically lost their identities because of all the folks from the big cities like Chicago moving there. If you look at all of the people who swear that these states are not Southern or were never places where Southerners migrated to, their American heritage probably does not go back very far back. It just amazes me how people can say that certain states like Missouri, Maryland, and yes even Arizona were never Southern. Maryland is full of people from New Jersey originally and I am sure if you ask most folks from Maryland they will say it is not a Southern state. Gosh, I am from North Florida, and many do not even feel my state is Southern.
By modern definitions, these three states are not Southern, and have not even been close to fitting that definition since the Civil War. Missouri and Maryland in particular showed sharp divisions prior to the Civil War. Missouri had German immigrants and Northern settlers at least two decades prior to the Civil War that when stacked up in number matched the number of Southerners and Irish. St. Louis in particular was always divided at best. It even voted for Lincoln during the 1860 election, and the state as a whole voted for Douglas...the only other state to do so was New Jersey. Maryland, since the nation's capital lay within its borders, obviously had similar divisions. The other fact about these two states was that they both bordered Northern and Southern states, so natural and large migrations of people from both could easily take place and it did. The Civil War basically eroded the Southern elements of these two states enough to the point where by a modern standpoint, they can be definitively called "not Southern." In fact, calling them even "border states" by modern standards is pushing it. Arizona to my knowledge was never dominated by Southerners. If it was, it wasn't that way for very long at all. Today, it has zero ties to the South. Florida is a unique story, because unlike these three states, it was definitively dominated by Southerners up until the latter half of the twentieth century, not over 150 years ago. It legitimately seceded from the Union, and had a strong Deep South identity until people from far away in other parts of the U.S. or Latin America began pouring into the state. Florida is not comparable to these three states in any way, shape, or form. Florida is far away from any Northern state, and experienced such an unusual massive immigration of Northerners and Latin Americans starting in the 1950s that it became a tourist destination which has kept these people settling there since at least the 1950s. Before this happened, Florida had been solidly Dixie for nearly a century. Florida had been having roughly little if any American migrants besides Southerners up until that point.

Last edited by stlouisan; 09-22-2011 at 12:34 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top