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Whats with the hate for any city/ or town not the center of one of the top 20 largest cities in the nation.
Do posters realize suburbanites are the same people as urbanites, but they just spread out? not some sub-human breed bent on destroying all culture in America.
It is a bit weird, but it's not unique to City-Data. Movies have lived on suburbia bashing and I guess it exists in Australia too as the Wikipedia article only describes the Australian version of it.
I think that it's the same people is maybe part of the anger. Some felt suburbanites were people who, in a way, "betrayed" the city by leaving it and allowing for the urban declines of the 1970s and early 1980s. Also there was some cases where the urban people went to the suburbs to be in a more "all-white" environment away from "poor people." So that gave the movie image of suburbs as places of, at least subtly, racist people obsessed with class or income. Also some suburbs did explicitly or implicitly exclude blacks from residing and that understandably bred resentment.
I think that image is likely less valid now as many suburbs, particularly in Texas and California as I recall, are quite diverse. African-Americans are, or at least were, starting to move to the suburbs in higher numbers. And some suburbs in California are plurality Asian-American. I think Long Island and the Midwest still have some "very white" suburbs, somewhat like those of the past, but I think that's declined.
The other idea, one mentioned in works immediately after WWII, was that suburbs were "cookie cutter" with all the houses the same and conformism run-amok. Mad Men I think is somewhat about the image playwrights and intellectuals had of post-war New York suburbs as well as being about their image of ad men. (I think it bears little relation to the actual lives of those people back then and I say that as a guy who's gotten a bit into it. It's more Alfred Hitchcock, Arthur Miller, and Rod Serling than reality. Although Serling actually liked his, granted pre-war, suburban youth)
I don't know if that's still as true these days either. Lastly suburbs traditionally voted more Republican than other places. The Entertainment industry tends to be highly, but by no means am I saying universally, Democratic. On average 70% of the political contributions "TV/Movies/Music" gives is to Democrats. This isn't simply "going with who's in charge" as 76% went to Democrats in 2002, a year when Republicans pretty much controlled the government. Also NYC-proper and LA-proper are both, overall, highly Democratic areas. So the real or perceived "conservatism" of cities is likely going to be a negative for entertainment media.
Whether suburbs are still conservative, even in this era suburb-bashing retains some entertainment-media popularity. I think Arcade Fire won a Grammy for a bit of that and movies can still get Oscar nominations for it. Praising of suburbs occurs in The Wonder Years and in...well I'm sure something else. Mostly the entertainment world I think is in agreement that suburbs are conformist and classist lands full of secret vices and venoms. Even if many of them actually live in suburbs and do so by choice.
So the real or perceived "conservatism" of cities is likely going to be a negative for entertainment media.
That should be
"So the real or perceived "conservatism" of suburbs is likely going to be a negative for entertainment media."
Also I might have been a bit unfair to Mad Men in that it wouldn't shock me if it does relate some to studies of real post-war life like "The Lonely Crowd" or "White Collar", it just strikes me as a bit more stylized than that.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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I think it is common for many to go through 'Stages of Life' transtioning from growing up in the suburbs to moving into the city and sometimes back to the suburbs again. Not saying its universal, but common.
Childhood: Suburbs are a great place to grow up with good schools
Late Adolescence: This town is so boring, I love the big city and bright lights
Early to mid twenties: Take action and move into the city, take in the diversity, nightlife, social life, higher educational environment and all the trappings of a big city
Late twenties to early thirties: The city is too expensive, we need more elbow room and space and plan on raising a family and we have good school districts in mind
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 10-02-2011 at 01:44 AM..
ok so my former suburban town had a chinese, spanish, mexican, japanese, and like 30 italian resturants, only 3 resturants are chains.
we also had a theatre, a small measeum, and 3 Bars.
It is a bit weird, but it's not unique to City-Data. Movies have lived on suburbia bashing and I guess it exists in Australia too as the Wikipedia article only describes the Australian version of it.
I think that it's the same people is maybe part of the anger. Some felt suburbanites were people who, in a way, "betrayed" the city by leaving it and allowing for the urban declines of the 1970s and early 1980s. Also there was some cases where the urban people went to the suburbs to be in a more "all-white" environment away from "poor people." So that gave the movie image of suburbs as places of, at least subtly, racist people obsessed with class or income. Also some suburbs did explicitly or implicitly exclude blacks from residing and that understandably bred resentment.
I think that image is likely less valid now as many suburbs, particularly in Texas and California as I recall, are quite diverse. African-Americans are, or at least were, starting to move to the suburbs in higher numbers. And some suburbs in California are plurality Asian-American. I think Long Island and the Midwest still have some "very white" suburbs, somewhat like those of the past, but I think that's declined.
The other idea, one mentioned in works immediately after WWII, was that suburbs were "cookie cutter" with all the houses the same and conformism run-amok. Mad Men I think is somewhat about the image playwrights and intellectuals had of post-war New York suburbs as well as being about their image of ad men. (I think it bears little relation to the actual lives of those people back then and I say that as a guy who's gotten a bit into it. It's more Alfred Hitchcock, Arthur Miller, and Rod Serling than reality. Although Serling actually liked his, granted pre-war, suburban youth)
I don't know if that's still as true these days either. Lastly suburbs traditionally voted more Republican than other places. The Entertainment industry tends to be highly, but by no means am I saying universally, Democratic. On average 70% of the political contributions "TV/Movies/Music" gives is to Democrats. This isn't simply "going with who's in charge" as 76% went to Democrats in 2002, a year when Republicans pretty much controlled the government. Also NYC-proper and LA-proper are both, overall, highly Democratic areas. So the real or perceived "conservatism" of cities is likely going to be a negative for entertainment media.
Whether suburbs are still conservative, even in this era suburb-bashing retains some entertainment-media popularity. I think Arcade Fire won a Grammy for a bit of that and movies can still get Oscar nominations for it. Praising of suburbs occurs in The Wonder Years and in...well I'm sure something else. Mostly the entertainment world I think is in agreement that suburbs are conformist and classist lands full of secret vices and venoms. Even if many of them actually live in suburbs and do so by choice.
Good post- but I'll add another key reason why liberals don't like suburbs. Suburbs and suburban lifestyles are seen as "unsustainable". They require lots of driving, they use up lot of good land, and they are built by developers who take advantage of infrastructure that is paid for by taxpayers. My writing this does not mean I am against suburbs; I live in the burbs and I like it that way, but these are some reasons why they don't get a lot of love.
I would say some of this is true. We drive more due to the lack of density, but that is also a lifestyle issue- family and community activities require driving and this is a theme more prevalent in the suburbs. Newer developments do use more land - parking is one reason- but these newer structures are more efficient in their use of energy than the older buildings downtown. In addition developments built in greenfields are much more difficult to execute these days. As far as developing on the backs of the taxpayers- well everyone has this opportunity, and the growth that results benefits everyone.
Suburbs are vague nowadays and once semi-independent cities have been sucked into the larger metro and are too suburbs(or rather exurbs). Chicago's largest suburb is home to about 200,000 people, is ethnically diverse, and have census tracts/neighborhoods that range from stereotypical suburban(far eastside) to densely populated quarters with gangs and low performing schools. As for nightlife and partying and all that fun stuff, I tend to agree with others that suburbs are not where it's at, though a few metros are exceptions. Word on C-D is that certain suburbs in Detroit are actually hotter than the city itself, which I think is sad.
It really depends on the suburb. I mean, compare a place like Sun City to a place like White Plains. Both are suburbs but are completely different. There's going to be a wiiiiide range of opinion.
I personally despise new suburbs that have sprung up in the southwest and south, but that's just my opinion.
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