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Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
Well, it's easy enough to look up. I looked at the BLS site and compared Chicago metro with Cleveland metro every year since 1990.
From 1990 to 1999, months Cleveland had a lower unemployment rate: 72
From 1990 to 1999, months Chicago had a lower unemployment rate: 41
From 1990 to 1999, months with the same rate of unemployment: 11
From 2000 to 2009, months Cleveland had a lower unemployment rate: 75
From 2000 to 2009, months Chicago had a lower unemployment rate: 40
From 2000 to 2009, months with the same rate of unemployment: 9
From 2010 to 2011, months Cleveland had a lower unemployment rate: 24
From 2010 to 2011, months Chicago had a lower unemployment rate: 0
From 2010 to 2011, months with the same rate of unemployment: 0
Totals for 1990 to 2011
Months Cleveland had a lower unemployment rate: 171
Months Chicago had a lower unemployment rate: 81
Months with both cities having the same rate: 20
# of years in which a majority of monts were lower in one metro:
Cleveland: 16 (out of 22)
Chicago: 5
Even: 1
Years in which the entire 12 month period was lower in one metro:
Cleveland: 6
Chicago: 4
So yeah, the data supports that Cleveland, not Chicago, tends to have lower unemployment rates and that's it a fairly regular thing.
city or metro? I guess I'm shocked considering that Chicago is by and large a very healthy metro area, economically, and until recently, Cleveland really wasn't. Or maybe that's not fair to say either, but Cleveland was struggling mightly for the past 50-60 years while Chicago has reinvented itself in the past 20 years......possibly with a worse unemployment rate.
Maybe unemployment rates don't truly reflect the state of one's economy???
city or metro? I guess I'm shocked considering that Chicago is by and large a very healthy metro area, economically, and until recently, Cleveland really wasn't. Or maybe that's not fair to say either, but Cleveland was struggling mightly for the past 50-60 years while Chicago has reinvented itself in the past 20 years......possibly with a worse unemployment rate.
Maybe unemployment rates don't truly reflect the state of one's economy???
city or metro? I guess I'm shocked considering that Chicago is by and large a very healthy metro area, economically, and until recently, Cleveland really wasn't. Or maybe that's not fair to say either, but Cleveland was struggling mightly for the past 50-60 years while Chicago has reinvented itself in the past 20 years......possibly with a worse unemployment rate.
Maybe unemployment rates don't truly reflect the state of one's economy???
These were metro rates. I think Cleveland has suffered the perception of being unhealthy. Not to say that Cleveland doesn't have some serious problems, but I think people tend to make them out to be worse than they really are. And I would say that Cleveland is also in the process of reinventing itself.
^ Another case in point from Nov 2011 metro unemployment rates, which defies the perception of the areas:
Cleveland: 6.9%
Chicago: 9.6%
Although it's been hammered that many of these cities are not "rust belt"...as they exist in the same geographic area, I'll showcase them in the new impressive numbers:
NATIONAL UNEMPLOYMENT RATE 8.2%
Great Lakes metros unemployment rates
Minneapolis-St. Paul MN-WI 5.1%
Columbus, OH 6.6%
Pittsburgh, PA 6.6%
Cleveland, OH 6.9%
Rochester, NY 6.9%
Akron, OH 7.2%
Milwaukee, WI 7.2%
Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY 7.3%
Syracuse, NY 7.5%
Canton-Massillon, OH 8.2%
Indianapolis, IN 8.2%
Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA 8.2%
Just curious then: why is Chicago's unemployment rate considerable higher than Cleveland's if it is so diversified?
Chicago's unemployment rate, like those in most cities, reflects the bad state of the economy in practically every sector. It's not just reflective of the long-gone industrial employers.
First, I would say Pittsburgh is the clear winner as to being the comeback city.
Now let me be a Cleveland booster for a moment. First, you have two downtowns and I have no clue if that's common or not in this country. The first downtown is, well, downtown Cleveland, with the big buildings, stadiums, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Great Lakes Science Museum, multiple theaters, a growing residential population, good public transportation including multiple light rail lines, the Health line, and the general public buses, Cleveland State University's reinvention of a number of blocks (dorms/restaurants/new buildings left and right/street repair/it goes on and on), multiple downtown malls, and some extraordinary streets with booming night life, with East 4th practically coming out of nowhere to be one of the greatest high density residential/night life districts of its size in the US. There are also a number of massive projects that currently underway, both of which could potentially rewrite Cleveland tourism from suburbanites and beyond and the business community; they are a downtown casino in Public Square (do major cities even have those in downtown areas, this could be a first?) and The Medical Mart.
Though not technically downtown, there are four immediate neighborhoods that are changing overnight. First, you have the Flats which is being completely reinvented on both east and west banks. Second, you have Tremont which is what I consider the city's finest urban neighborhood. There are excellent art galleries, world class eateries...it's what a neighborhood should look like! Third, you have Ohio City, which is becoming quite the beer utopia. And finally you have Detroit Shoreway/Battery Park. There are hiccups in all these places, yes, but compare them to fifteen years ago and you wouldn't recognize anything. The improvement of neighborhoods is what dictates a city's comeback, and there are clear signs of that, especially with those four.
And then there's the second downtown, University Circle, about 5 miles east of downtown. It's a midwest treasure - look it up online, you'll be astounded what's happening.
Since I have to go back to work, I'll omit the bad stuff - foreclosures, low wage jobs, crime, stigma, weather, yadda yadda, we all know it - and say that I feel Cleveland is on the verge of a comeback. What it needs now, desperately needs, more than anything else, is leadership. We (I live there and Chicago conccurently) don't have it. The mayor is a good man, as noncorrupt as it gets, an admirable man. He's also a very very very very very weak mayor. And, as some of you may have read, the FBI is busy prosecuting a number of our political leaders, a national embarassment. Finally, we have no real business leaders outside of Dan Gilbert, who is still a Detroit guy at the end of the day.
We get the leadership, then we're right there with Pittsburgh and beyond. And so as of now, it's hard to say if we're really making a comeback or if it's just cosmetic.
I agree with you. One of my brothers lives in Chicago, and he LOVES to visit Milwaukee. He recently said that he didn't know it was such a cool city, and that there were so many things to do. They usually spend the night, and make a week-end out of it.
Don't get me wrong, I like Chicago. I just wish I've met friendly people from there like you guys have!
First, I would say Pittsburgh is the clear winner as to being the comeback city.
Now let me be a Cleveland booster for a moment. First, you have two downtowns and I have no clue if that's common or not in this country. The first downtown is, well, downtown Cleveland, with the big buildings, stadiums, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Great Lakes Science Museum, multiple theaters, a growing residential population, good public transportation including multiple light rail lines, the Health line, and the general public buses, Cleveland State University's reinvention of a number of blocks (dorms/restaurants/new buildings left and right/street repair/it goes on and on), multiple downtown malls, and some extraordinary streets with booming night life, with East 4th practically coming out of nowhere to be one of the greatest high density residential/night life districts of its size in the US. There are also a number of massive projects that currently underway, both of which could potentially rewrite Cleveland tourism from suburbanites and beyond and the business community; they are a downtown casino in Public Square (do major cities even have those in downtown areas, this could be a first?) and The Medical Mart.
Though not technically downtown, there are four immediate neighborhoods that are changing overnight. First, you have the Flats which is being completely reinvented on both east and west banks. Second, you have Tremont which is what I consider the city's finest urban neighborhood. There are excellent art galleries, world class eateries...it's what a neighborhood should look like! Third, you have Ohio City, which is becoming quite the beer utopia. And finally you have Detroit Shoreway/Battery Park. There are hiccups in all these places, yes, but compare them to fifteen years ago and you wouldn't recognize anything. The improvement of neighborhoods is what dictates a city's comeback, and there are clear signs of that, especially with those four.
And then there's the second downtown, University Circle, about 5 miles east of downtown. It's a midwest treasure - look it up online, you'll be astounded what's happening.
Since I have to go back to work, I'll omit the bad stuff - foreclosures, low wage jobs, crime, stigma, weather, yadda yadda, we all know it - and say that I feel Cleveland is on the verge of a comeback. What it needs now, desperately needs, more than anything else, is leadership. We (I live there and Chicago conccurently) don't have it. The mayor is a good man, as noncorrupt as it gets, an admirable man. He's also a very very very very very weak mayor. And, as some of you may have read, the FBI is busy prosecuting a number of our political leaders, a national embarassment. Finally, we have no real business leaders outside of Dan Gilbert, who is still a Detroit guy at the end of the day.
We get the leadership, then we're right there with Pittsburgh and beyond. And so as of now, it's hard to say if we're really making a comeback or if it's just cosmetic.
It is very common for metros to have multiple employment/commercial centers. Economic engines are not often all centered in one area. Many cities have them separated by distance or suburbs. That said University Circle is a great attribute to Cleveland and seems to be where most are pinning hope for future growth. On the other hand it says a lot that there is less true hope pinned on growth in financial industries, corp headquarters, large manufacturing, government or distribution (for large scale economic growth). Medical/technology may truly be Cleveland's hope.
city or metro? I guess I'm shocked considering that Chicago is by and large a very healthy metro area, economically, and until recently, Cleveland really wasn't. Or maybe that's not fair to say either, but Cleveland was struggling mightly for the past 50-60 years while Chicago has reinvented itself in the past 20 years......possibly with a worse unemployment rate.
Maybe unemployment rates don't truly reflect the state of one's economy???
Having lived in both areas I would not say that Chicago's METRO is any healthier than Cleveland's. Chicagoland actually has a ton of crap areas, probably a greater proportion of its metro as a whole than greater Cleveland does. However, the Chicago metro is obviously much larger so there are indeed large areas of wealth as well. The Chicago metro as a whole is more polarized than the Cleveland metro is.
Now if we are just talking about the CITY, than yes, Chicago is obviously healthier than Cleveland. Chicago has retained a much larger percentage of its metro's wealth within the city limits than Cleveland has. This in fact is a major, if not the primary, cause of Cleveland problems at this time if you ask me.
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