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The Hudson Valley wine country I think is the place to go if your trying to attract foodies and yet stand out. Foodies and Wine afficionados from the city flock there.
Bourdain called it the Napa/Sonoma valley of the east coast (maybe Napa/Sonoma is the Hudson Valley of the west coast).
The presence of the culinary institute in Hyde Park, gives the area a lot of credibility. I seem to put on a few pounds every time I visit "home".
Along with an abundance of locally grown, harvested, fished produce and live stock the Hudson Valley would also be my top choice,
In this case, think at the level of Alinea, French Laundry, Charlie Trotter and others - maybe the correct terminology should be "gourmet foodies" - not sure.
I'm not sure how one becomes a foodie - I suppose some people become foodies on their own - but that others become educated to it due to the types of restaurants available in an area?
"Gourmet Foodies", sure... They're definitely up there in terms of recognition, et. c.
One can become a "Foodie" by sampling the many varieties (and quality) their town offer. Some would say always go as authentic as you can, which would mean to go to the Food's native country/origins. One can also get cookbooks and learn the very basics of cooking (and cutting-- that's one of the mark of a good Chef is their cutting efficiency and variety.)
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Originally Posted by sagcynthia
In searching the web, most articles I've found deal with what places are best for foodies to live or travel to. But are there places where foodies live, but no one has simply opened a restaurant there at the level of the above-mentioned ones?
Right now, DC and NY metro areas are the top contenders, perhaps Philly (I read the thread about Philly vs. DC as a foodie city)... //www.city-data.com/forum/city-...elphia-dc.html
(wonder why the markup above is not working...?)
Take DC for example - it seems that it's not particularly known as a foodie city. Yet, one would think with the diversity and worldliness the seat of government brings, that people in that area would overall have more sophisticated dining tastes. But, does the fact that there is no Alinea level restaurant there mean foodies of this type don't live there? Or is there some other reason? Is the market there, but it just has not been filled? No doubt there are some fine restaurants in DC, but to my knowledge none of the renown as the three ones mentioned above.
Of course, one would not have to have the restaurant right in DC proper. I lived in DC and surrounding area for 15 years in the early 70s and we didn't think anything of driving up to an hour for something enjoyable - dining, antiquing, etc. I see that kind of a drive as an integral part of living in that area. I lived in Maryland suburbs at one point and would go to Alexandria for a shopping experience, Georgetown to dine. So, driving a distance for a dining experience is totally within the mentality of this area from my very old experience - can only assume it is still the same.
NYC always makes the list of top foodie destinations. But, what if you had the restaurant over in CT, but still in the NY metro or combined statistical area? Do New Yorkers travel outside the city for a high level dining experience? Or are there so many high level restaurants that New Yorker foodies would feel less likely to travel to CT for a dining experience?
I wouldn't say DC isn't known as a "foodie" place... it is. They offer a great variety and good quality restaurants. Top Chef held a location there one year/season... I would say that's a good indication of acknowledgement to the foodie scene. DC has come a long ways since the 70s.
NYC is just different because ultimately... 99% of restaurants will fail in NYC. With those kind of odds, to rise to the top creme de la creme... it is very hard.
As for CT... I know that Hartford has a very small foodie scene. But at the same time, it's easy overpowered by it's big neighbor. There's a foodie scene to be discovered just about anywhere.
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Originally Posted by sagcynthia
And, is it better to be in DC because there would be less competition for this type restaurant? Or NY metro area because it is a proven market? And, I worry about the higher cost of living and doing business in NY area offsetting any benefit of potentially greater restaurant income.
Again.... 99% of restaurants fail in NYC. If you're thinking of opening your own and you're (or your friend is) a great chef... then your odds might actually be better in DC. I think with DC, you'll have more people willing to try, give you/your friend a chance. With NYC, its definitely about connections and best spread word-of-mouth.
Do your research... make sure you have your paperwork in order, taxes done right. DC... the way its set up is more business friendly than NYC. Look into places/areas that are business friendly, that are encouraging small-business growth.
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Originally Posted by sagcynthia
What about other options on the east coast? Such as Richmond? Norfolk? Miami is probably not an option.
Lots of foodie scene (big and small) in addition to the ones already mentioned: Savannah, Charleston, Chapel Hill, Memphis, Burlington (VT), Portland (ME), Providence (RI), Baltimore... These are the ones that rolls off in my head. But there's plenty out there.
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Originally Posted by sagcynthia
Also, can a correlation be drawn between higher income folks and being a foodie? Education? Creative professionals? Yuppies? Other types tending to be foodies? Again, remember the types of restaurants I mentioned early in this post.
Well, don't only look at higher income folks and Yuppies. Definitely look to Creative professionals. Curious people. And people who just want plain good food.
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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places such as NYC, Chicago and SF will be much harder to stand out. They already have the big guns and are on to the next thing before most people can set up shop. I'd go for up and coming, smaller cities like Pittsburgh, areas of VA, Annapolis, etc.
True, and was once the nations leader in wine production until the California Wines took over. Hudson Valley wineries are more of a boutique type wine.
places such as NYC, Chicago and SF will be much harder to stand out. They already have the big guns and are on to the next thing before most people can set up shop. I'd go for up and coming, smaller cities like Pittsburgh, areas of VA, Annapolis, etc.
Good point and I was thinking the same about being harder to stand out in NYC, Chicago and SF. I thought about Annapolis. As a former Washingtonian, we thought nothing of driving to Annapolis for an enjoyable experience of some type.
One Washington area friend who lives in Maryland burbs suggested NW DC, Bethesda, Chevy Chase. I like that option. I know there is also a lot of wealth in Fairfax County, VA but same friend said the driving there from DC proper is a nightmare from DC - lots of highway construction.
I drove that construction a couple of years ago and it WAS a nightmare and apparently has not changed. She felt DC residents would be more likely to drive to NW DC, Bethesda, Chevy Chase over VA due to the horrible traffic to VA. Actually, that construction has been going on for at least 4 years I think with apparently no end in sight.
Hmmm, don't think so...just wondered if there were tendencies amongst certain groups - not trying to put them all in one group.
Regarding country / rustic offerings in No. VA - are you speaking of Alexandria Old Town, such as Virtue, something else? I have not lived in that area since 1980. Actually much further out. A few examples would be The Inn At Little Washington, Patowmack Farm and The Ashby Inn
Great feedback, I kind of thought that as well, but was not sure since I've lived in DC area but only visited NYC. But then there's the interesting suggestion above of Hudson Valley where the poster says NYers go there a lot. Believe me far fewer Manhattanites head to the Hudson Valley than DC residents who head out to VA or MD. It's significantly easier in DC
Out toward Bethesda / Chevy Chase? Do you think there's already too much competition in No. VA? Or just a lack of establishments in NW DC? On the contrary I don't think there's enough competition in Northern Virginia. The wine industry has evolved considerably there to the point where the quality of wine produced is beginning to become mentioned in the same breath as Oregon and Washington State products. The restaurant scene in my opinion has not caught up to that as of yet. Towns like Warrenton, Middleburg, Leesburg and Purcellville are areas of focus in my opinion.
Do you think there is not a French Laundry type establishment because the market is not there?I think the vibe is different here on the East Coast and I see an overall movement to more casual roots. I think the farm-to-table aspect is becoming more entrenched here finally but don't see the extravagant nine course tasting menu concept taking hold here. A simple, homier approach that bypasses foam, gastriques and small plates utilizing the best/freshest ingredients that are skillfully prepared will trump the trends indefinitely
I know there is also a lot of wealth in Fairfax County, VA but same friend said the driving there from DC proper is a nightmare from DC - lots of highway construction.
I drove that construction a couple of years ago and it WAS a nightmare and apparently has not changed. She felt DC residents would be more likely to drive to NW DC, Bethesda, Chevy Chase over VA due to the horrible traffic to VA. Actually, that construction has been going on for at least 4 years I think with apparently no end in sight.
What's lost in your assessment is the fact that the traffic is so horrendous from DC to Northern Virginia because of what has happened in terms of growth in Northern Virginia. Because of the massive population growth the elite Northern Virginia restaurants no longer need traffic from DC in order to succeed. Both Loudoun County and Fauquier County possess great wealth and have seen tremendous residential growth over the past 15-20 years, and as a result I would no longer in my opinion place great emphasis on Fairfax County as the prestige element as it's become more or less solidly upper middle class, plus it does not possess a particularly strong culinary scene outside of some excellent ethnic offerings. I would strongly encourage a visit to assess the changes since you last lived in the area.
Regarding country / rustic offerings in No. VA - are you speaking of Alexandria Old Town, such as Virtue, something else? I have not lived in that area since 1980.
Actually much further out. A few examples would be The Inn At Little Washington, Patowmack Farm and The Ashby Inn
Good examples of destination places.
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Great feedback, I kind of thought that as well, but was not sure since I've lived in DC area but only visited NYC. But then there's the interesting suggestion above of Hudson Valley where the poster says NYers go there a lot.
Believe me far fewer Manhattanites head to the Hudson Valley than DC residents who head out to VA or MD. It's significantly easier in DC.
Good to know, I would have guessed as much based on my experience.
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Out toward Bethesda / Chevy Chase? Do you think there's already too much competition in No. VA? Or just a lack of establishments in NW DC?
On the contrary I don't think there's enough competition in Northern Virginia. The wine industry has evolved considerably there to the point where the quality of wine produced is beginning to become mentioned in the same breath as Oregon and Washington State products. The restaurant scene in my opinion has not caught up to that as of yet. Towns like Warrenton, Middleburg, Leesburg and Purcellville are areas of focus in my opinion.
What about Fredericksburg? I'm told the Economic Development area there has new tax incentives for businesses.
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Do you think there is not a French Laundry type establishment because the market is not there?
I think the vibe is different here on the East Coast and I see an overall movement to more casual roots. I think the farm-to-table aspect is becoming more entrenched here finally but don't see the extravagant nine course tasting menu concept taking hold here. A simple, homier approach that bypasses foam, gastriques and small plates utilizing the best/freshest ingredients that are skillfully prepared will trump the trends indefinitely.
You mentioned Inn at Little Washington, yet you say you don't feel tasting menus have caught on. However, in checking out the Inn at Little Wash web site and menu, they have a 10 course tasting menu.
Are you saying you don't think the tasting menu has caught on in the immediate DC Metro area, but has when going further out? Seems Inn at LW has a lot other others things going for it besides the Inn and restaurant itself in terms of beautiful terrain. I would have to research Fredericksburg in terms of how it compares to Washington, VA in features that might attract visitors to the area.
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