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I realize this is a pretty old thread, but, since it doesn't appear to have been completely abandoned yet, I'll add a map that is about as good at answering the question as I've found.
Should be pretty self-expanitory, but if not: dark red is always considered The South, light red is usually considered The South, and striped is sometimes considered to be part of The South... but, as far as I'm concerned, the yankees can have West VA, except for that John Denver song--we'll keep that. And I've always thought Missouri was pushing it a little. If I've been there I don't remember it, so who cares (sorry, Missourians... Missourites... whatever).
Now, Kentucky, whilst I still harbour a tad bit of resentment over their lack of support for the cause... sorry, think I was channeling my great-great... great(?) grandaddy for a moment... they sit around on white columned porches in big hats sipping mint juleps--sounds pretty Southern to me.
As for Florida. I was born in the Panhandle, and, even now, that area is definitely Southern--pretty much the gulf coast of Georgia and Alabama. And I would say it's still pretty Southern over to Jacksonville (where Atlantans go when forced out of Georgia by the yankee invasion) and down through Ocala. When you hit central Florida, and over to the east coast, while there are definitely areas of old-timers (that's "old-timers"--the families that have been there for generations, not "old geezers", which are yankees that have decided that they at least want to be warm when they die), the "feel" is definitely that of transplanted northeners. There is also a healthy mix of hispanics in this area, and, as you progress south, you do eventually hit Little Havana (and increasingly little Caracas). I'm not sure how "Southern" this area has ever been--since the Spanish culture has been part of south Florida since colonization--and it is becoming less so ever since then. But I'm not familiar enough with the area to know how far the Spanish influence extends beyond the metropolitan areas. Once you get to the Keys, they're kind of their own thing, but I think it's still Southern (like New Orleans is/was--Southern but in it's own way)... but more "gay friendly."
cant believe i read this whole thread, laughed a lot, I might add......I will say this.
I am a Missourian from waaaaaaay back, my family arrived in 1699, and still live there, so I feel I can speak with some small amount of authority.
The southern part of Mo starts between Cape Girardeau and Sikeston, where the land flattens out to form the Delta, and extends west to just west of Poplar Bluff, where the Ozarks start.
The folks there are just as southern as any I have met in Mississippi, and the restaurant menus reflect that. I offer the grits theory..... "If they aint got grits, it aint the South."
Just my 2 cents, from experience.......
The Union States are Northern the Confederate States are Southern and thats all it is to it.
...But that would exclude perhaps all of the striped states in the map above, and at least one of the red ones, and the original question was "where do the boundaries begin?" To which the answer is... it depends who you ask. Using Civil War--sorry, War Between the States--allegiance is certainly one way to do it (and is largely why I exclude the treasonous WVA... that and by excluding them it probably boosts Southern cumulative test scores [and Lawd knows we need any help we can get]), but it does leave a gap.
And had I known anyone from Missouri was currently reading this thread, I might've left the whole who-cares-about-Missouri stuff out... maybe. Now watch someone from W VA pop up. I'd better go ahead and apologize now in West Virginian so they understand--hOw dEr eyE tocK boUd weZ vuHjinNY thAt WEy, i Iz seW SorREe--Ok, I think I just soothed things over.
Last edited by ItsAtlantaNotTheATL; 03-26-2008 at 09:25 PM..
"ItsAtlantaNotTheATL" You are quite right about a West Virginian showing up. We are always watching. I will excuse your lack of knowledge about WV, but as far as the Civil War goes you are way off base. According to the Archives and History Dept. of the State of West Virginia, about 50% of West Virginia's soldiers were Confederate. Compare that to KY or MO, where it was only 30%. And while only minor portions of KY and MO supported the Confederacy, about two-thirds of West Virginia voted for Secession. While I can't do much about your manners, now at least you're a little smarter.
And had I known anyone from Missouri was currently reading this thread, I might've left the whole who-cares-about-Missouri stuff out...
I didnt take any offense, how are you supposed to know about Mo, unless you lived there, or someone told you? I only pointed it out because so many people dont know about that peculiar part of Mo.
I pretty well agree with all of this, especially about Texas. As a native Texan, I would say the trans-pecos area (the extension that includes El Paso) and parts of far South Texas (with the large hispanic population) are execptions, but rest of Texas (ESPECIALLY East Texas, which is where the Deep South begins) is essentially Southern in culture.
This map too, IMO, is a decent one of the boundaries of the cultural South, or where Southern culture dominates. Even though its intent is to show where "Southern American English" is spoken, it still seems to fit the question itself pretty well.
That map seems like it would be accurate but why is there a chunk taken out of South Carolina...where Charleston is.
I noticed the the "birthplace of the late unpleasantness" was left out, also, whats up with that?????
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