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I am creating seperation between the GP and GL states without any regard to the midwestern label. I agree with Texas though as it should be its own unique region. Although Oklahoma has quite a bit in common with the central plains of Kansas and Nebraska. It does have a southern touch but it certainly is a great plains state that is extrememly similar to the next two states to the north.
You have to admit though. You'd see many similarities to the midwestern cities if you were to visit Oklahoma and north Texas. they just happen to be south of Kansas.
Western Iowa, including Des Moines and Ames is very Great Plainsish. The rapid rural decline to accompany rapid city growth. the type of growth is very similar to the great plains states and the climate isn't too far off either. Kansas City is definitely a great plains city as is Columbia MO.
Minneapolis may be straight north of Des Moines, but it has more attributes to the GL than GP.
I disagree. Mpls is not very Great-Lakish at all. IMO, Mpls. is much more like KC than it is like Milwaukee
I disagree. Mpls is not very Great-Lakish at all. IMO, Mpls. is much more like KC than it is like Milwaukee
The built environment of Minneapolis is much more western compared to Milwaukee. I think Milwaukee still has some yellow plate stoplights which always seems more eastern to me.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,094,873 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
The Midwest is what is left over after Easterners, Southerners and Westerners lay claim to what they call themselves.
The west starts about a quarter of the way across Nebraska, Kansas and the Dakotas. The south starts at Kansas City, St. Louis and the hill country of Indiana and Ohio. The east starts right after Cleveland.
The only states that are entirely in the Midwest are Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa.
That is the most inaccurate description I've ever heard. The south starts about 100 miles below both St. Louis and Kansas City. Both of these cities are Midwestern. What starts below these cities is the transition zone from Midwest to south. The true south lies 100 miles south of these cities, and is bounded by the Ohio River and roughly Highway 60 across Missouri. As far as which states are entirely in the Midwest, I might agree there, but the vast majority of every state included in the Midwest is the Midwest. The hill country of Indiana and Ohio? You'll have to be more specific. As far as the east starting right after Cleveland, i think you mean the Northeast. And the west starts about 3/4 of the way across the Great Plains states. I don't know what makes you assume the things you assume, but they are inaccuret.
I disagree. Mpls is not very Great-Lakish at all. IMO, Mpls. is much more like KC than it is like Milwaukee
You know what Ben.. I was wrong in that statement. I have visited Minneapollis and it is more like KC than Milwaukee. Sometimes the sheer size of Minneapolis is deceiving. Minneapolis also seems to interact with cities from the plains than it does from cities from the east from both a business and social standpoint. I've always known this, but I sometimes write this off as heresy.
That said, the great plains culture can be drawn from a line beginning at minneapolis, through Des moines - Ames IA, through Columbia MO and curving back to joplin MO (skipping Springfield as it is much more southern than gp) then to northwest AR. It extends down into northeast texas and hits the 'great wall of southern'. This line can be extended all the way to the rockies to form the great plains cities.
Dallas serves as the Chicago of the great plains. List of cities included:
Dallas,
Minneapolis,
Denver,
Fort Collins,
Kansas City,
Oklahoma City,
Tulsa,
Omaha - Lincoln,
Des Moines - Ames,
Wichita KS,
Fayetteville AR,
Sioux Falls, SD
Fargo, ND
Obviously there are micro-regions in here too as no region is 100% alike. Such as the Dallas, OKC, Tulsa and especially Fayetteville regions have an aspect of them that is a bit southern while KC, Omaha, Des moines and Minneapolis doesn't but replaces those aspects with a bit of a midwestern flavor. It is true that Denver and Fort Collins are in the plains on the front range, but their layout and culture screems great plains except for what makes them different is a bit of the intermountain culture not present in the other cities. All of these cities have a great similarities with each other - more so than they do with other regions which forms the great plains region (exact boundaries undefined, but the cities included really are not debatable).
the cities that scream great plains culture the most are: Omaha, Des Moines, Sioux Falls, Columbia, Kansas City, Tulsa, Oklahoma City and Wichita. The rest are very similar with a slightly more variance.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,540,027 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
The Midwest is what is left over after Easterners, Southerners and Westerners lay claim to what they call themselves.
The west starts about a quarter of the way across Nebraska, Kansas and the Dakotas. The south starts at Kansas City, St. Louis and the hill country of Indiana and Ohio. The east starts right after Cleveland.
The only states that are entirely in the Midwest are Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa.
That is the most inaccurate description I've ever heard. The south starts about 100 miles below both St. Louis and Kansas City. Both of these cities are Midwestern. What starts below these cities is the transition zone from Midwest to south. The true south lies 100 miles south of these cities, and is bounded by the Ohio River and roughly Highway 60 across Missouri. As far as which states are entirely in the Midwest, I might agree there, but the vast majority of every state included in the Midwest is the Midwest. The hill country of Indiana and Ohio? You'll have to be more specific. As far as the east starting right after Cleveland, i think you mean the Northeast. And the west starts about 3/4 of the way across the Great Plains states. I don't know what makes you assume the things you assume, but they are inaccuret.
Missouri entered the union as a slave state, and you are telling me that the south doesn't start until you are nearly in Arkansas? In the 1950s, Hannibal, 50 miles from the Iowa line, was a fully segregated city. Nearly all settlement of Missouri in the 19th century came up from the South. To this day, the towns north of Kansas City are sundown towns, clinging to their segregationist roots.
I've lived in four different towns in Missouri and I never had a sense that I was in the Midwest. My dad grew up in Missouri, and living in the Midwest, he was a fish out of water. I'm not just making this up. Mark Twain called Missouri a Southwestern state, even Hannibal. There may be a lot of people there who don't want to be called southern, but they are. Or else they came from the Midwest and brought the Midwest along with them.
Missouri entered the union as a slave state, and you are telling me that the south doesn't start until you are nearly in Arkansas? In the 1950s, Hannibal, 50 miles from the Iowa line, was a fully segregated city. Nearly all settlement of Missouri in the 19th century came up from the South. To this day, the towns north of Kansas City are sundown towns, clinging to their segregationist roots.
I've lived in four different towns in Missouri and I never had a sense that I was in the Midwest. My dad grew up in Missouri, and living in the Midwest, he was a fish out of water. I'm not just making this up. Mark Twain called Missouri a Southwestern state, even Hannibal. There may be a lot of people there who don't want to be called southern, but they are. Or else they came from the Midwest and brought the Midwest along with them.
Sorry but I'm a proud southerner from SE Missouri but most of Missouri in modern times is part of the Midwest in almost every way. Before the civil war Missouri was a southern state, but not after. Missouri may be a bit different than the rest of the Midwest but it's not different enough to classify it as part of another region overall. There are parts of Missouri that are 100% Southern however, mainly the Bootheel.
The built environment of Minneapolis is much more western compared to Milwaukee. I think Milwaukee still has some yellow plate stoplights which always seems more eastern to me.
What's a "yellow plate stoplight"? I used to live in Milwaukee and have no idea what this is.
Missouri entered the union as a slave state, and you are telling me that the south doesn't start until you are nearly in Arkansas? In the 1950s, Hannibal, 50 miles from the Iowa line, was a fully segregated city. Nearly all settlement of Missouri in the 19th century came up from the South. To this day, the towns north of Kansas City are sundown towns, clinging to their segregationist roots.
I've lived in four different towns in Missouri and I never had a sense that I was in the Midwest. My dad grew up in Missouri, and living in the Midwest, he was a fish out of water. I'm not just making this up. Mark Twain called Missouri a Southwestern state, even Hannibal. There may be a lot of people there who don't want to be called southern, but they are. Or else they came from the Midwest and brought the Midwest along with them.
You are forgetting St Louis. It's late-19th century settlement came largely from Germany, Ireland and Italy. While it's true their popular port of entry was New Orleans, they were not Southerners.
What's a "yellow plate stoplight"? I used to live in Milwaukee and have no idea what this is.
Google streetview. Eg: 2900 block N Holton, Milwaukee. Notice the stoplight housing is yelow in color, hence the term "yellow plate" stoplight. Yellow plate stoplights are more common in the eastern part of the US as well as in more rural locations. If you go further west to Minneapolis or Des Moines they have no yellow plate stoplights. They are all black plate stoplights.
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