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It has been my experience in the vast majority of cases that the reason for non-assimilation is not because the northerner encounters hostility, but their own disdain and contempt for the South and Southern ways. It often manifests in the common complaint of northerners constantly harping on how they did it "Up North"...as if that matters.
That was never true with me at all, I wore the clothes that everyone else wore, loved and appreciated the history of the state I lived in. When it came to find a job I know the economy was truely horrible, but I feel like I was discriminated against a little bit for not being a Southerner. As laid back as I was, prepared, and enthusiastic, I couldn't help not having a Southern accent come interview time.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
On a related tangent, the term "yankee" is just part of the historical Southern vernacular...it doesn't necessarily mean anything derogatory...amymore than an Englishman applying the term to Americans is intended as a insult.
The term "Yankee" connotes a lack of belonging, of being a foreigner, or outsider to the South. You may not intend it as derogatory but we see it as such. We don't call you Southerners when you try to live and work up here we call you Americans. And when I couldn't find a job in the Southern state I lived in, I am glad I returned to the "Yankee" North because I fit in and belong here much better than I ever did down South. We can't help the accent we are born with.
At no time have I ever heard any "Northerner" either self-identify as a "Northerner" or in any way ever believe or define any activity as something that reflects a "Northern way."
So, I would say then that a "Northerner" is a term of exclusion used by "Southerners" for people who "aren't from 'round here."
That was never true with me at all, I wore the clothes that everyone else wore, loved and appreciated the history of the state I lived in. When it came to find a job I know the economy was truely horrible, but I feel like I was discriminated against a little bit for not being a Southerner. As laid back as I was, prepared, and enthusiastic, I couldn't help not having a Southern accent come interview time.
Then it seems to me you should have done very well down here. In fact, some of the fiercest partisans of the South I ever knew were northerners who adapted to our ways, etc.
And BTW -- my own kids are half-yankee! LOL
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The term "Yankee" connotes a lack of belonging, of being a foreigner, or outsider to the South. You may not intend it as derogatory but we see it as such. We don't call you Southerners when you try to live and work up here we call you Americans. And when I couldn't find a job in the Southern state I lived in, I am glad I returned to the "Yankee" North because I fit in and belong here much better than I ever did down South. We can't help the accent we are born with.
One cannot change two centuries of idiom and vocabulary just because someone "might be offended" by it. You come across as a very intelligent and reasonable and civil person...and I admire and respect that. But at the same time, some of your wording takes on a tone of being overly sensitive.
As I said, to an Englishman or somebody from South America I would be a "yank," I don't take it personal, it is just part of their historical idiom. Same as when a Southerner refers to a non-Southerner as a "yankee." Most of the time it means along the same lines of referring to a redhead as "Red." Simple as that.
Of COURSE we are all Americans. We fight on the same side of the creek. But there is nothing wrong -- or shouldn't be -- with being a Southerner, Westerner, Northerner, New Englander, etc. And, by extension, talking different, eating different, acting different, etc, etc,. I don't want our common country to become one where all talk and act alike...like some beta out of Brave New World...
The strange thing is my friends, family, and co workers from PA don't even think about the whole southern thing, nobody even mentions it, I've always considered us all to be Americans, the only time I hear about this stuff is from the southerners, not all but some and they hate with a passion, I just laugh about, realizing the some are uneducated idiots.
The thing about Pennsylvania is we are located much closer to the upper southern states then other states in what people generally consider the Northeast (NY, NJ, NH, RI, ME MA, VT, and CT). We also border the Midwest being next to Ohio. PA being called the keystone state makes sense since it connects the different areas of the country together. So since we are next to these different regions it’s not surprising that Pennsylvania doesn't care about the whole north south thing. The only time someone from Pennsylvania even mentions the north south thing negatively is if someone from the south is talking smack about the south rising again and there state being better than ours. Then people from PA will bring up Gettysburg just to the shut them up. However, Southerners doing that tend to be exclusively from the Deep South and it’s rare that it happens. To be fair though I've met just as many if not more northerners usually from New England that put down the south as well.
Overall I'd say the whole north south thing is mostly BS. What it really comes down to is actual geography being how close people live next to each other that determine how many similarities and differences there are. For example I'd say that Pennsylvania and Virginia have more in common with each other then they do with Vermont or Louisiana. I'd also say that West Virginia and Ohio have more in common with each other than they do with Texas or Rhode Island. Overall people tend to exaggerate how homogenous regions of the United States actually are.
The thing about Pennsylvania is we are located much closer to the upper southern states then other states in what people generally consider the Northeast (NY, NJ, NH, RI, ME MA, VT, and CT). We also border the Midwest being next to Ohio. PA being called the keystone state makes sense since it connects the different areas of the country together. So since we are next to these different regions it’s not surprising that Pennsylvania doesn't care about the whole north south thing. The only time someone from Pennsylvania even mentions the north south thing negatively is if someone from the south is talking smack about the south rising again and there state being better than ours. Then people from PA will bring up Gettysburg just to the shut them up. However, Southerners doing that tend to be exclusively from the Deep South and it’s rare that it happens. To be fair though I've met just as many if not more northerners usually from New England that put down the south as well.
Overall I'd say the whole north south thing is mostly BS. What it really comes down to is actual geography being how close people live next to each other that determine how many similarities and differences there are. For example I'd say that Pennsylvania and Virginia have more in common with each other then they do with Vermont or Louisiana. I'd also say that West Virginia and Ohio have more in common with each other than they do with Texas or Rhode Island. Overall people tend to exaggerate how homogenous regions of the United States actually are.
So you really think there are huge differences in regions? I can find rude, impatient people in Alabama and I can find laid-back, friendly people in Massachusetts. Maybe there tend to be less of each and more of the other in these two states I gave examples of but I don't think other than weather and even then that the differences are as massive as people think.
So you really think there are huge differences in regions? I can find rude, impatient people in Alabama and I can find laid-back, friendly people in Massachusetts. Maybe there tend to be less of each and more of the other in these two states I gave examples of but I don't think other than weather and even then that the differences are as massive as people think.
Actually no I don't think there are huge differences which is why I said the whole north south thing is BS. I'd say the deep south and New England as defined by Wikipedia is accurate though (at least what they list as the core region of the Deep South.) With those two regions being how different depending on how close people living in states in between are to those regions. Yet, those states in between those regions don't actually have quite as much affinity to those areas as people tend to believe. So to sum up my answer to your question I think the differences aren't as great as what people believe yet I do feel the stereotypes the Deep South and New England have of each other end up influencing people living in the states in between which leads to a lot of BS if that makes any sense.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984
Actually no I don't think there are huge differences which is why I said the whole north south thing is BS. I'd say the deep south and New England as defined by Wikipedia is accurate though (at least what they list as the core region of the Deep South.) With those two regions being how different depending on how close people living in states in between are to those regions. Yet, those states in between those regions don't actually have quite as much affinity to those areas as people tend to believe. So to sum up my answer to your question I think the differences aren't as great as what people believe yet I do feel the stereotypes the Deep South and New England have of each other end up influencing people living in the states in between which leads to a lot of BS if that makes any sense.
Pennsylvania does not really touch the south from a modern standpoint. Maryland and Delaware are every bit as much a part of the Mid-Atlantic, and don't give me "the census bureau says" because they are simply wrong to use the PA border from a cultural, demographic, and linguistic standpoint. And the northern third of WV is more affiliated with the north than the south.
Actually no I don't think there are huge differences which is why I said the whole north south thing is BS. I'd say the deep south and New England as defined by Wikipedia is accurate though (at least what they list as the core region of the Deep South.) With those two regions being how different depending on how close people living in states in between are to those regions. Yet, those states in between those regions don't actually have quite as much affinity to those areas as people tend to believe. So to sum up my answer to your question I think the differences aren't as great as what people believe yet I do feel the stereotypes the Deep South and New England have of each other end up influencing people living in the states in between which leads to a lot of BS if that makes any sense.
I agree with you but your earlier quote was this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984
Overall people tend to exaggerate how homogenous regions of the United States actually are.
Maybe you meant to say heterogeneous or different?
Pennsylvania does not really touch the south from a modern standpoint. Maryland and Delaware are every bit as much a part of the Mid-Atlantic, and don't give me "the census bureau says" because they are simply wrong to use the PA border from a cultural, demographic, and linguistic standpoint. And the northern third of WV is more affiliated with the north than the south.
I actually agree with you about Maryland and Delaware being part of the Mid Atlantic and not the south. West Virginia I'm inclined to say the North part of the state is more inline with the North the Southern part though you can make an argument either way. I also said most peoples definition of the Northeast. Since a lot of people argue over whether Maryland is or isn't part of the Northeast. Also I do live relatively close to the Mason Dixon line and have argued repeatedly on here that it is irrelevant.
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