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In what ways do you mean foundation? do you mean present day, or historically like most pro confederate state in the civil war?
Modern, post civil war I have to say Mississippi. Hands down. That still has really maintained southern culture. Alabama second maybe, then south carolina.
Also the posters about Virginia, it is an upper south state and remember the secession convention at first voted against it.
Modern day virginia is not even close due to northern VA is really changing.
That's a good point about the Civil War, but the root of Southern culture is definitely antebellum and was already long-established, and I'd argue Virginia was the root of that (even if it had shifted south). The Confederacy is as much South Carolina's baby as anything else. It was a SC convention that first declared the existence of a Confederacy and it was in South Carolina that the war began.
Anyway, I'm leaning slightly towards South Carolina.
Okay, but that's just the civil war, not culture. Maryland used to be undeniably southern in culture despite whatever leaning it had in the civil war. Every history book I have left over from my college history classes makes the claim that Maryland would have seceded if not for the governor stalling things until the union army came in, and despite Kentucky being accepted into the CSA Kentucky was more loyal to the union than the notably disloyal Maryland was. You also have to remember that Maryland is a much older place than Missouri.
I'm not sure if I'm agreeing with you, adding something on, or changing the subject, but economically, Maryland was a Southern state in its early history as well. It was pretty much a tobacco-based economy before the American Revolution (which caused Baltimore to be underutilized as a port in the early days). Lord Baltimore had to give specific instructions when Maryland was founded to plant corn and other crops because everyone just wanted to go and grow tobacco and pretty much every river and creek was covered with plantations trying to be as close to ocean-going vessels as possible.
I'd say Baltimore was more of a Northern city by at least the 1830s. It had a lot of trade with Ohio and the Northeast and was one of the earlier developers of canals and railways. It even had dabbled in some manufacturing, which really took off after the Civil War. So, while the southeast of Maryland had a lot in common with Virginia, Baltimore was more like Philly (with a few more slaves). So, Maryland was a divided state well before the Civil War.
I can't disagree with you about Baltimore. Baltimore is a very interesting city.
The part of Maryland where I grew up in was built by tobacco, and the land was largely tobacco farms until the '98 buyout. Now the major crops are peaches, corn, squash, asparagus, berries, beans, tomatoes, apples etc. which were always grown in the area but have since become more important. I think corn and peaches are the only things we really export though.
I can't disagree with you about Baltimore. Baltimore is a very interesting city.
The part of Maryland where I grew up in was built by tobacco, and the land was largely tobacco farms until the '98 buyout. Now the major crops are peaches, corn, squash, asparagus, berries, beans, etc. which were always grown in the area but have since become more important. I think corn and peaches are the only things we really export though.
That reminds me of something random. Delaware used to be a huge producer of peaches (and was called the peach state). Peaches were so common that farmers used to feed them to pigs. But then came blight, which killed the industry in the early 1900s. I didn't even know Delaware used to be known for peaches until I was researching the state flower (Peach Blossom).
Okay. Firstly, i'm sorry for assuming you would call it NE but that's what i've heard it called by many on this site.
What do you mean by the Mid-Atlantic then? To most Marylanders and myself it means VA, MD, DE, (and often coastal NC) but people on this site seem to think it means NY, PA, NJ, DE, MD.
Would you call it part of the north or the south or a separate identity altogether?
I would say that you are correct in saying that the Mid Atlantic is Va, Md, and Del. I do not think NC is considered Mid Atlantic.
Officially I think they say that NY, NJ, DEL, PENN, MD, VA, W VA are the Mid Atlantic states.
Last edited by Scotty011; 07-22-2012 at 08:56 PM..
What do you mean by the Mid-Atlantic then? To most Marylanders and myself it means VA, MD, DE, (and often coastal NC) but people on this site seem to think it means NY, PA, NJ, DE, MD.
When I lived in PA, it meant the 2nd one. But it wasn't Northeast, Mid-Atlantic and the South, it was New England and the rest. PA is definitely part of the Northeast and part of certain definitions of the Mid-Atlantic (e.g. when linguistics refer to Mid-Atlantic English, they include PA, but not Virginia).
I'm not sure how someone from Delaware would define the Mid-Atlantic, but most northern Delawareans associate themselves with PA more than Virginia (and increasingly Delawareans are commuting to NYC several times a week). I think if I defined the Mid-Atlantic differently (i.e. rather than being the area between New England and the South, I defined it as the area where the North transitions into the South), I would have the Mid-Atlantic states exactly as you define it (including coastal NC, which has some similarities with Delaware). Still, one could simply define NC and Virginia as the Upper South, which would separate it from the Deep South, but still preserve the states' Southern roots.
I studied linguistics a lot in college and still do for fun, and I remember the Mid-Atlantic accent linguistically being defined as Baltimore, Harford, and Cecil counties in MD, Philly Area PA, South Jersey, and North Delaware. Most of Maryland is "eastern" or southern. Maryland eastern has little hints of tidewater southern in it and is most similar to Southern Delaware, and not surprisingly closely related to Harrisburg/York area PA accents - which are very similar but notably distinct to a trained listener. Western Maryland has a West Virginian variety of southern, and Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore have a variety of southern which is basically a Norfolk accent without R-dropping. It is very closely related to accents of southern and coastal Virginia and northern North Carolina.
I have a tidewater southern accent without r dropping, which grew in the major early-settled slave-holding areas of MD and VA, though my time in SW VA gave me a little Appalachian Southern. I also have the regional MD/NoVA thing of saying "fokes" instead of "folks".
Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; 07-23-2012 at 12:15 AM..
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