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Umm, I'm from the NY Area, so please, don't tell me what I'm upset or not upset at. So please don't assume you know what I am thinking.
Just calling like I see it, you sure act that way but go ahead and deny it all you want.
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Sounds like a cop-out. "Most Californians welcome slower growth"...I'm sure if California was growing at the same rate as Texas, most of you guys would brag about it.
Well you don't live here and probably have never even been here so you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Most, if not all, people I know think CA is too crowded as it is and our resources are being stretched thin. CA really can't handle those high rates of growth anymore imo.
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Unlike New York or Illinois, Whites and Blacks aren't fleeing by the MILLIONS. We are talking about a near exodus of White and Black Americans from a state that was once very much prized in the American lexicon, but now represents everything that is wrong with the United States.
Then who is fleeing? Because both those states, especially New York, keep losing it's native population.
Not sure why you are so OBSESSED with CA's domestic out migration when you should probably being more concerned with your own New York considering they are losing more people at a higher rate than CA.
Net Domestic Migration 2000-2008
NY: 1,538,000
CA: 1,359,000
Net Domestic Migration 2000-2008 RATE
NY: -8.1%
CA: -4.0%
You keep using the word 'people' as if the domestic outmigration of Americans from California is irrelevant. Again, most of us don't consider growth from fellow Americans the same as growth from Asian and Hispanic immigrants. It's really not the same thing.
Good, I'm glad that 3rd world immigrants find California an appealing place to live. How about making it more appealing to the rest of America? That's what's stopping it from being a truly booming place. Notice how California was considered "booming" back when Americans from ALL OVER Wanted to move there and did? Now its considered in decline once Americans stopped wanting to move there?
What's really ironic is how in other threads you tout all the immigrants, many from the third world, that move to and reside in the northeast and NY then come in this thread and turn around and portray it as a negative. So which is it? You really do a great job of contradicting yourself just so you can bash CA. What you keep saying about CA can be said about other states, especially NY. Also even if CA did lose population doesn't mean it always will. Again, look at NY when it lost population in the 1980's but it didn't stay that way. New York State is probably the best example of where CA is headed since NY has been experiencing what CA is currently for a longer amount of time, which is domestic out migration.
I use the word "people" because I'm taking about human beings. Bizarre, huh? I do enjoy the amusing attempts to downplay California diversity though. It's high comedy. Diversity out East or in Texas is vibrant and zesty. Diversity in California is third world ghetto.
Amyway, you like total numbers over percentages, correct? Well, the amount of whites living in California is higher than the total number of PEOPLE in all but four states! Texas, the rest of California, Florida, New York, California whites. Lulz, you'd better get that boycott of California mobilized. Or pray for the big one. If this is "rock bottom", you don't want to see Cali when it booms again.
Well you don't live here and probably have never even been here so you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Most, if not all, people I know think CA is too crowded as it is and our resources are being stretched thin. CA really can't handle those high rates of growth anymore imo.
The Netherlands has 16 million people in an area the size of Maryland and is doing economically better than California.
South Korea has nearly 50 million people in an area the size SMALLER than Virginia with even less buildable land and even less natural resources to work with than California and STILL is doing economically better than California.
Please, don't blame it on the growth rate. Blame it on CALIFORNIANS themselves mismanaging the state. If you guys knew how to manage anything, then the state can easily support 100 million people.
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Then who is fleeing? Because both those states, especially New York, keep losing it's native population.
Not sure why you are so OBSESSED with CA's domestic out migration when you should probably being more concerned with your own New York considering they are losing more people at a higher rate than CA.
Net Domestic Migration 2000-2008
NY: 1,538,000
CA: 1,359,000
Net Domestic Migration 2000-2008 RATE
NY: -8.1%
CA: -4.0%
1) Not about New York, but thanks for thinking about us.
2) New Yorkers don't claim to live in the #1 state, but merely claim to live in the #1 city, which is an objective fact in almost any measure
3) This thread is about will California always be #1, to which I already said that Texas should perhaps slim the margin of population before trying to say it's #1. That being said, the "population" that California is gaining is not very conducive toward economic growth or the betterment of America.
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What's really ironic is how in other threads you tout all the immigrants, many from the third world, that move to and reside in the northeast and NY then come in this thread and turn around and portray it as a negative. So which is it?
In the case of California, its a NEGATIVE because without a native population to speak of, who's going to Americanize all the foreigners when they come to the United States? In states like NY and IL, even though the native population is leaving, there is enough native population staying and the right amount of foreigners entering to make assimilation into American society more possible.
California: +3,382,308 (in fact, this is the #2nd largest gain after Texas even with Blacks and Whites leaving)
Illinois: + 411,339
Louisiana: -64,396
Michigan: -58,804
New York: +401,605
Those are the states that lost Whites and Blacks compared to how they grew in the past 10 years in total. Notice how California is a HUGE outlier from that?
Don't compare NY and IL to California. It's intellectually dishonest.
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You really do a great job of contradicting yourself just so you can bash CA. What you keep saying about CA can be said about other states, especially NY. Also even if CA did lose population doesn't mean it always will. Again, look at NY when it lost population in the 1980's but it didn't stay that way. New York State is probably the best example of where CA is headed since NY has been experiencing what CA is currently for a longer amount of time, which is domestic out migration.
Except NYC is a priority to the United States because its the nation's largest city, meaning that the Federal Government would NEVER let the city fail. In addition, how can NYS be an "example" if the population dynamics of the two states are different, along with other political, social, and economic factors?
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I use the word "people" because I'm taking about human beings. Bizarre, huh? I do enjoy the amusing attempts to downplay California diversity though. It's high comedy. Diversity out East or in Texas is vibrant and zesty. Diversity in California is third world ghetto.
Those "people" aren't as much of an economic benefit as native born Americans are. There are studies that have proved that.
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Amyway, you like total numbers over percentages, correct? Well, the amount of whites living in California is higher than the total number of PEOPLE in all but four states! Texas, the rest of California, Florida, New York, California whites. Lulz, you'd better get that boycott of California mobilized. Or pray for the big one. If this is "rock bottom", you don't want to see Cali when it booms again.
And how long do you think Whites and Blacks will continue to live in California given the numbers I posted above? The canary is in the coal mine. Sure, it could decelerate, but more likely it will accelerate as more and more policies will be made to cater more toward the Asians and Hispanics, leading toward more Whites and Blacks leaving California.
I'd rather live in Texas than California, but the numbers of Mexicans and Asians going into the state more than makes up for the Blacks and Whites leaving the state.
Great, California will increase in population, but how many of those people will be American?
It's good that California still appeals to those abroad, but in the systematic way that California is losing its NATIVE BORN AMERICAN population, especially Whites and Blacks, draws the question of whether or not the residents of the state are actually committed to making the United States stronger as opposed to their own ethnic communities and their countries of origin.
How does a Mexican farm worker or factory worker, who basically spends a few months working in the US and continually sends money back to Mexico instead of spending it in the United States, help the United States?
How does an H1B worker from India in Silicon Valley, who comes as a single male and sends money back to India to live in a small, 1 bedroom apartment in some San Jose apartment complex, helping America?
Why do immigrants in California and their children seem to count more than the needs of the American born, who are fleeing by the millions for the past few decades?
Last edited by Huge Foodie 215; 05-17-2012 at 03:45 PM..
You brought up New York first, saying whites were dropping California at a rate faster than New York. Completely and totally false. That's just a monumental fail, as is your attempt to play the "we're obsessed" card.
As for Cali lacking Americans to "train them foreigners", 72% of Californians are United States born. We'll be ok.
Last edited by RaymondChandlerLives; 05-17-2012 at 04:20 PM..
The Netherlands has 16 million people in an area the size of Maryland and is doing economically better than California.
South Korea has nearly 50 million people in an area the size SMALLER than Virginia with even less buildable land and even less natural resources to work with than California and STILL is doing economically better than California.
Please, don't blame it on the growth rate. Blame it on CALIFORNIANS themselves mismanaging the state. If you guys knew how to manage anything, then the state can easily support 100 million people.
So how can Californian's make the sky drop more rain on our state? CA only has so many natural resources. You try to compare CA to other FOREIGN countries but why don't you actually make a more logical comparison and compare it to other states? Oh that's right, because you hold CA to a different standard than everywhere else. If CA ever reached 100 million people in the far distant future I'm sure it would find a way but that takes time which is why slow growth is better overall. Just like CA now uses the least amount of electricity per capita by far, we are finding ways to make do with what we have.
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That's fine, except this thread is
1) Not about New York, but thanks for thinking about us.
2) New Yorkers don't claim to live in the #1 state, but merely claim to live in the #1 city, which is an objective fact in almost any measure
3) This thread is about will California always be #1, to which I already said that Texas should perhaps slim the margin of population before trying to say it's #1. That being said, the "population" that California is gaining is not very conducive toward economic growth or the betterment of America.
Point is CA is headed in the same direction NY state has been for a while.
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In the case of California, its a NEGATIVE because without a native population to speak of, who's going to Americanize all the foreigners when they come to the United States? In states like NY and IL, even though the native population is leaving, there is enough native population staying and the right amount of foreigners entering to make assimilation into American society more possible.
And what exactly is "enough native population" that is required to assimilate immigrants? Is there some sort of standard number that is required?
California: +3,382,308 (in fact, this is the #2nd largest gain after Texas even with Blacks and Whites leaving)
Illinois: + 411,339
Louisiana: -64,396
Michigan: -58,804
New York: +401,605
Those are the states that lost Whites and Blacks compared to how they grew in the past 10 years in total. Notice how California is a HUGE outlier from that?
First, what is the source of your statistics? You never post any links.
Second, lets look at %'s from those stats:
So how the hell is CA an outlier? It has way more people than all those states so of course in absolute numbers it will have more leaving too.
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Don't compare NY and IL to California. It's intellectually dishonest.
More irony! What's intellectually dishonest is how you ignore RATES and PER CAPITA figures ALL the time when it doesn't give you the answer you want. Looks like CA is losing whites and blacks at the same rate as Il and NY, actually slightly less than NY. So good luck assimilating all those immigrants that you are so proud of that come to NY when you whites and blacks are leaving at a higher rate than CA.
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Except NYC is a priority to the United States because its the nation's largest city, meaning that the Federal Government would NEVER let the city fail. In addition, how can NYS be an "example" if the population dynamics of the two states are different, along with other political, social, and economic factors?
ACtually it came very close to letting the city fail when they nearly went bankrupt and asked for a bailout in the 1970's. CA is the nation's largest state, so why would the federal govt let it fail?
California still is the 8th/9th biggest economy in the world.
Obviously is a HUGE issue in contention because people throughout this thread have stated the same sentiments as me, including questions like these
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Originally Posted by City Data Guy
So, when do you guys think California's non-Hispanic white and black populations will approach zero?
I'd bet a couple bucks that it'll happen before 2100.
I would BET you that posters like the above are thinking, albeit not being as direct as me, the same thing I am: population from Asian and Hispanic immigrants is NOT a replacement for losing whites and blacks. In fact, the NATIVE Blacks and Whites should count more because they are FROM this great country of ours.
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You brought up New York first, saying whites were dropping California at a rate faster than New York. Completely and totally false. That's just a monumental fail, as is your attempt to play the "we're obsessed" card.
As for Cali lacking Americans to "train them foreigners", 72% of Californians are United States born. We'll be ok.
And how many of those "72% United States born" are kids of immigrants? Anchor babies don't count, so take them out. I would bet you $10 that a whole lot of those "US born" have the same kind of thinking and world view as the foreign born, unlike the native born White and Blacks who are absolutely 100% committed to making America stronger.
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So how can Californian's make the sky drop more rain on our state? CA only has so many natural resources. You try to compare CA to other FOREIGN countries but why don't you actually make a more logical comparison and compare it to other states? Oh that's right, because you hold CA to a different standard than everywhere else. If CA ever reached 100 million people in the far distant future I'm sure it would find a way but that takes time which is why slow growth is better overall. Just like CA now uses the least amount of electricity per capita by far, we are finding ways to make do with what we have.
If you guys knew how to manage your resources better, then this wouldn't even be a question. There are so many countries in the world that have less land, less resources, but better quality of life and economic indicators than California. Why would that be a false comparison? Are you having problems facing the truth?
This is exactly WHY people are fleeing the state to even places like NEVADA, who have even less resources to work with but are growing way quicker than California is.
And please, quote the "least amount of electricity" per capita from a source.
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Point is CA is headed in the same direction NY state has been for a while.
Point is this thread isn't about New York, but about California..lol
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And what exactly is "enough native population" that is required to assimilate immigrants? Is there some sort of standard number that is required?
I like the 4-1 standard personally. 4 Natives to 1 foreigner to help assimilate them successfully into American society and make them make America stronger, instead of sending money to other countries and their own ethnic community. How about that for starters?
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First, what is the source of your statistics? You never post any links.
Second, lets look at %'s from those stats:
Or you can check American factfinder to verify the numbers above.
California IS an outlier because not only are people leaving, they are being not only REPLACED quickly but also being wiped out in % and numeric terms by Asian and Hispanic immigrants. In New York State, you don't have that.
California: +3,382,308 (in fact, this is the #2nd largest gain after Texas even with Blacks and Whites leaving)
Illinois: + 411,339
Louisiana: -64,396
Michigan: -58,804
New York: +401,605
California LOST nearly 900,000 people to other states, but grew by 3.4 million? That not only means that 3.4 million Asian and Hispanics came to California, but also another 900,000 Asian and Hispanics replaced the people who left to post a 3.4 million person growth rate.
In NO OTHER STATE do you see that happening. In NO OTHER STATE do you see the face of America changing so quickly that you have people like this asking this question:
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Originally Posted by City Data Guy
So, when do you guys think California's non-Hispanic white and black populations will approach zero?
I'd bet a couple bucks that it'll happen before 2100.
That is an ALARMING prospect.
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More irony! What's intellectually dishonest is how you ignore RATES and PER CAPITA figures ALL the time when it doesn't give you the answer you want. Looks like CA is losing whites and blacks at the same rate as Il and NY, actually slightly less than NY. So good luck assimilating all those immigrants that you are so proud of that come to NY when you whites and blacks are leaving at a higher rate than CA.
Except Asians and Hispanics are nowhere NEAR the majority of New York State, New Jersey, Illinois, or anywhere else. That means Asian and Hispanic immigrants who settle in NY, which is NOWHERE near an international border or the Pacific Ocean, will have more propensity to become American than those who settle in California.
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ACtually it came very close to letting the city fail when they nearly went bankrupt and asked for a bailout in the 1970's. CA is the nation's largest state, so why would the federal govt let it fail?
1) Proof that the Federal Government was going to let NYC fail?
2) I would bet that people in 49/50 states would NOT let the Federal Government bail out California from a threat of a boycott, or even a civil war. Again, according to latest statistics, 44% of Americans hate California. That is more than 136 million people! Bailing California out will only enrage them and rip this country apart.
44% of America. That's a whole lot of angry people.
I am already starting to draft a manifesto for the mass boycott of California, along with a letter to my local congressmen to deny any more Federal tax dollars to the state.
All it takes is the use of social media to spread my message and people will flock to it.
If you guys knew how to manage your resources better, then this wouldn't even be a question. There are so many countries in the world that have less land, less resources, but better quality of life and economic indicators than California. Why would that be a false comparison? Are you having problems facing the truth?
There is this entity called the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT that limits what CA can do. This state has tried to enact very tough environmental regulations that the federal government won't allow it to. CA is part of the USA you know and we are bound to its laws and regulations. Apparently you either can't see or have trouble accepting this truth. Maybe you thought CA could act as an independent nation and do what it wants, well it can't.
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This is exactly WHY people are fleeing the state to even places like NEVADA, who have even less resources to work with but are growing way quicker than California is.
People go to NV because it's cheaper and less regulated. And if you think they are doing so good, why don't you take a look at their ECONOMIC INDICATORS. Higher unemployment and forclosure rate! GREAT EXAMPLE! Are you under the impression NV doesn't have issues with resources? Do you think water is plentiful in the driest state in the nation? You clearly have no idea the issues NV is facing.
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And please, quote the "least amount of electricity" per capita from a source.
Point is this thread isn't about New York, but about California..lol
True, but why not compare it to a state that is and has faced many of the same issues. People want to know what direction CA is headed, NY is a good place to start looking.
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I like the 4-1 standard personally. 4 Natives to 1 foreigner to help assimilate them successfully into American society and make them make America stronger, instead of sending money to other countries and their own ethnic community. How about that for starters?
Don't really care what you think it should be as your opinion is nothing more than that and seems to based on a lot of cherry picked data and misinformation.
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California IS an outlier because not only are people leaving, they are being not only REPLACED quickly but also being wiped out in % and numeric terms by Asian and Hispanic immigrants. In New York State, you don't have that
So CA is sustaining better growth than NY state, got it So apparently if CA was more stagnant like NY then it would be better off? Also when you look at the socioeconomic indicators of Blacks, I'm not sure how they are really any better than a lot of the recent Asian and Hispanic immigrants. I have a pretty good idea why you have such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to immigrants.
California LOST nearly 900,000 people to other states, but grew by 3.4 million? That not only means that 3.4 million Asian and Hispanics came to California, but also another 900,000 Asian and Hispanics replaced the people who left to post a 3.4 million person growth rate.
Are you serious? Do you think 100% of our growth came from immigration? There is thing thing called NATURAL INCREASE from births and no they aren't all from Asians and Hispanics immigrants.
Also there are already a lot of Americanized and assimilated minorities in CA, but I'm sure they're still not "American" to you.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about here, you completely disregarded growth from births over deaths. Absolutely horrible at statistical analysis.
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1) Proof that the Federal Government was going to let NYC fail?
"How close did New York City come to bankruptcy in 1975 after the Ford administration rebuffed its appeals for help? The margin between solvency and default may have been paper-thin."
2) I would bet that people in 49/50 states would NOT let the Federal Government bail out California from a threat of a boycott, or even a civil war. Again, according to latest statistics, 44% of Americans hate California. That is more than 136 million people! Bailing California out will only enrage them and rip this country apart.
Right, because it's not like the federal government does anything that upsets 40%+ of the people or a majority. Whatever, this is just more delusional thinking imo, think whatever you.
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I am already starting to draft a manifesto for the mass boycott of California, along with a letter to my local congressmen to deny any more Federal tax dollars to the state.
All it takes is the use of social media to spread my message and people will flock to it.
I am begging you, please keep us updated. Can you start a thread and update it and let us know how this goes. I literally cannot wait to see how this goes. Post the letter you're going to send, post a link to your facebook page, etc.. Trust me, I am very interested in seeing this. Haha.
Obviously is a HUGE issue in contention because people throughout this thread have stated the same sentiments as me, including questions like these
I would BET you that posters like the above are thinking, albeit not being as direct as me, the same thing I am: population from Asian and Hispanic immigrants is NOT a replacement for losing whites and blacks. In fact, the NATIVE Blacks and Whites should count more because they are FROM this great country of ours.
Wow, thats just a bit racist. This country is built on immigration.
I would say the opposite. First generation immigrants will have a learning curve, but they will typically work harder than natives. Ive seen it countless times, they will be less materialistic, they will be content with less and will be more nimble. Many will work their butts off and make it work. Where the natives that are leaving, are basically looking for an easier life elsewhere.......................arent we all.
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So apparently if CA was more stagnant like NY then it would be better off? Also when you look at the socioeconomic indicators of Blacks, I'm not sure how they are really any better than a lot of the recent Asian and Hispanic immigrants. I have a pretty good idea why you have such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to immigrants.
. Whatever, this is just more delusional thinking imo, think whatever you.
