We should take a poll to find the North/South dividing line (homes, income)
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Louisville is the real "Gateway to the South." It doesn't make sense to call Cincy that because it's not the south. Nor is the region of Kentucky right below it. The northern half of Kentucky is a transition zone between the Midwest and south. The south in Kentucky IMO begins when you reach Louisville, Frankfort, and Lexington. Both Louisville and Lexington actually proclaim themselves as the places where the south starts.
Agree, but far northern KY by Cinci is pretty much almost entirely midwestern. I guess you could say parts have faints of southerness, like SW Jefferson County has, but I wouldn't call it enough to be transition zone. I'm talking far northern KY that part that is the same latitude as St. Louis and north of St. Louis for example, the cinci area.
Also some of the buildings in Cincy and on the KY side look VERY similar to Stl.
St. Louis' climate is NOT southern...I don't know what this craze is all about. Are our summers hot? Yes. So are Omaha's, Kansas City, Des Moines, and Indy's. Snowfall levels are "paltry" in all of these except Des Moines if you want to use that definition. Personally, I consider those snowfalls to be moderate. Anything that exceeds 30 inches is what I'd call "snowy." Anything approaching 20 inches but below 30 I'd consider moderate. We get all four seasons...hot summers, moderate winters. It can get bonechillingly cold here in January. I've lived here 25 years. Snowfall in excess of 30 inches is nothing that surprises me, nor are temperatures in the single digits. As far as north/central Maryland, I wouldn't consider those places southern. The winters are too cold and snowy to be considered such. There seems to be no room for "in-between" in these forums.
It's ironic, BUT our spring and summer weather, the new averages released by NOAA this year and we are here in St. Louis warmer than a number of places in Virginia, and also many places in northern KY as well. And a few degrees warmer all year round than cincy is and certainly warmer than INDY.
Im on a local St. Louis weather board that Chris Higgins from ch2 runs, and it's been talked about before why it always seems our weather at times can get rather boring any time of the year. Like the winter it seems north of us, and also to the south of us for example can get some interesting weather especially those "Memphis Lows" just to the south of us might get more snow.
Like Chris and others states it's because we here in Stl are located in an in between zone. 100 miles to the south is around the start of the sub tropical classification climate, and we are near the fringes of the humid continental climate. So we are kinda stuck in between.
Lower Midwest is the best word to describe Stls location.
Also about climate I always notice Cape Girardeau seems to be the dividing line. When you go north of there it's more temperate, cooler, and south of it quite warmer in the winter and a lot less snow.
Like driving down I55 in the fall you can notice it like I did one time. Nice fall colors begin, but once I drive into Cape Girardeau county it really changes and the trees were almost all green! Because the elevation drops.
Clearly Baltimore isn't southern. I know quite a few Baltimorons who identify as southern and I find that to be a big stretch. As a Marylander from south of US-50, I call myself southern, even if my state as a whole leans northern.
My comparison of St Louis to Baltimore was to show that St Louis was not southern climate-wise, as Baltimore (a clearly not southern city) is hotter than St Louis and similarly snowy.
Actually the new national weather service data says otherwise. Spring and summer are cooler than Stl.
However also take into the account the location near the cooler water as well.
Winter though their temps are slightly warmer.
Otherwise I'd say Baltimore is VERY similar to stl. I mean historically too. The civil war Baltimore was a divided city, and had civil unrest at the start as well just like Stl did with Camp Jackson. the last 100 something years both cities have lost it's southern heritage.
However also take into the account the location near the cooler water as well.
Winter though their temps are slightly warmer.
Otherwise I'd say Baltimore is VERY similar to stl. I mean historically too. The civil war Baltimore was a divided city, and had civil unrest at the start as well just like Stl did with Camp Jackson. the last 100 something years both cities have lost it's southern heritage.
Links not working. (Edit-working now but I'm unsure of the accuracy- the recent temperatures don't match up at all with local recent measurements).
But, the average temperature in July in St. Louis is ~90, and in Baltimore it's ~90.5. The hot season in Baltimore lasts longer than in St. Louis. The average temperature in January in St. Louis is ~23, in Baltimore it's ~40. Baltimore is in climate zone 8 (Minimum temp 10-20) and St Louis in climate zone 5 (Minimum temp -20--10) Baltimore is a bit snowier (simply because it is a lot wetter) but there is only snow on the ground about a week.
I don't know much about St. Louis's southern heritage, but half a century ago you'd be laughed at for calling Baltimore, or Maryland, northern.
Links not working. (Edit-working now but I'm unsure of the accuracy- the recent temperatures don't match up at all with local recent measurements).
But, the average temperature in July in St. Louis is ~90, and in Baltimore it's ~90.5. The hot season in Baltimore lasts longer than in St. Louis. The average temperature in January in St. Louis is ~23, in Baltimore it's ~40. Baltimore is in climate zone 8 (Minimum temp 10-20) and St Louis in climate zone 5 (Minimum temp -20--10) Baltimore is a bit snowier (simply because it is a lot wetter) but there is only snow on the ground about a week.
I don't know much about St. Louis's southern heritage, but half a century ago you'd be laughed at for calling Baltimore, or Maryland, northern.
That's the average low in St. Louis in January. There's no way that that's the average temp. And for Baltimore, the average low in January is 29
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertFoxFan
It's ironic, BUT our spring and summer weather, the new averages released by NOAA this year and we are here in St. Louis warmer than a number of places in Virginia, and also many places in northern KY as well. And a few degrees warmer all year round than cincy is and certainly warmer than INDY.
Im on a local St. Louis weather board that Chris Higgins from ch2 runs, and it's been talked about before why it always seems our weather at times can get rather boring any time of the year. Like the winter it seems north of us, and also to the south of us for example can get some interesting weather especially those "Memphis Lows" just to the south of us might get more snow.
Like Chris and others states it's because we here in Stl are located in an in between zone. 100 miles to the south is around the start of the sub tropical classification climate, and we are near the fringes of the humid continental climate. So we are kinda stuck in between.
Lower Midwest is the best word to describe Stls location.
Also about climate I always notice Cape Girardeau seems to be the dividing line. When you go north of there it's more temperate, cooler, and south of it quite warmer in the winter and a lot less snow.
Like driving down I55 in the fall you can notice it like I did one time. Nice fall colors begin, but once I drive into Cape Girardeau county it really changes and the trees were almost all green! Because the elevation drops.
STL is not much warmer than either Cincy or Indy. Especially looking at these last few years. And onegoal, your ability to disguise yourself is nonexistent. Lower Midwest is the best description of STL, but Cincy and Indy are very much in that zone as well. As far as stuck in between, only in terms of the weather, but that's very much the case for Cincy and Indy, also near the fringes of the humid continental. And there are parts of the south which get colder and cooler, even in the summer, than areas to the north of us, so to say that's an argument for putting us in between is ridiculous, especially when one takes into account topography, which is very influential on an area's climate. In every other way besides weather, St. Louis is not transition, but solidly Midwest.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca
Links not working. (Edit-working now but I'm unsure of the accuracy- the recent temperatures don't match up at all with local recent measurements).
But, the average temperature in July in St. Louis is ~90, and in Baltimore it's ~90.5. The hot season in Baltimore lasts longer than in St. Louis. The average temperature in January in St. Louis is ~23, in Baltimore it's ~40. Baltimore is in climate zone 8 (Minimum temp 10-20) and St Louis in climate zone 5 (Minimum temp -20--10) Baltimore is a bit snowier (simply because it is a lot wetter) but there is only snow on the ground about a week.
I don't know much about St. Louis's southern heritage, but half a century ago you'd be laughed at for calling Baltimore, or Maryland, northern.
I thought you were trying to argue these areas as being part of the north, not the south. Heritage is b.s. IMO...if it has no meaning today, why try and emphasize it...this is like calling somebody fat after they've lost weight and become thin.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca
Okay. I was trying to go for the average January temperature overall and could only find limited data about St. Louis.
St. Louis' average low is 24...from 1970 to 2010 the average low was 21. St. Louis on average is usually colder than Baltimore or D.C...however, Baltimore is fairly snowy compared to any city in the south. Average snowfall I believe was either slightly less or slightly more than STL.
With the way the weather is acting these days, I don't think averages tell us sh*t. According to the averages, this whole country's weather the past few years has been so far above average it's ridiculous. It hits 100 a few times here every summer, but it's remaining consistently at 100...that is unheard of here.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertFoxFan
Agree, but far northern KY by Cinci is pretty much almost entirely midwestern. I guess you could say parts have faints of southerness, like SW Jefferson County has, but I wouldn't call it enough to be transition zone. I'm talking far northern KY that part that is the same latitude as St. Louis and north of St. Louis for example, the cinci area.
Also some of the buildings in Cincy and on the KY side look VERY similar to Stl.
Jefferson County, Kentucky is entirely southern. other than that, I don't see the point of this post...you've completely reiterated what I said.
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