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Old 06-21-2015, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,493 posts, read 9,425,709 times
Reputation: 5594

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pac_5 View Post
That's a great personal testimonial and all, but you do realize that you represent a small, small fraction of people that want to move - and are probably one of less than ten people that left a thriving city for a dead one in upstate New York. Yes, the sunbelt is not the best place for Hispters or underpaid "creative" types that can't nail down an actual career (the best of that class ends up on the coasts anyways), but for the vast majority of people with real jobs and families, the opportunities and ways of life are better. You learn these things when you get older, your paycheck grows and responsibilities get a bit more "real".

The net migration is several million people the other way, but I am glad that people are still willing to keep the lights on in the Rust Belt - I would hate to see that part of our country struggle more than it should. Not everyone who lives in the cold should exclusively live in a city of East Coast significance.
Two things:
1. Architecture is an actual career. It is practiced, like medicine and law.
2. I know this makes me sound elitist, but the mass acceptance of something is not the best measure of its quality. Look how popular reality TV has been over the last 15-20 years.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:34 AM
 
37,778 posts, read 41,410,675 times
Reputation: 27011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I don't agree. Overcrowding, pollution, and corruption weren't unique to what became known as rust-belt cities, at that time. So that would have been a country/small town vs. city comparison.
No it wasn't unique to the Rustbelt, but to legacy cities in general. However, the same general point applies.

Quote:
Our legacy cities weathered the ugly chaos from those boom years, and the resulting urban fabric matured into what we have today. fromsuntorust seems to be saying that, at least in Houston, continued growth isn't helping the existing urban fabric mature, but is--instead--pushing for the construction of new low-density urban fabric, allowing the older low-density urban fabric to decay.
Well the older low-density urban fabric in most Sunbelt cities are the second-ring suburbs of the 60's, 70's, and 80's which have suffered disinvestment as people have moved further out, but those areas still have decent bones and infrastructure in place and are ideally situated for revitalization in the near future. I don't know about Houston, but I know that in several other Sunbelt cities, the urban cores are seeing unprecedented levels of investment once again in terms of housing, commercial spaces, recreational spaces, transit, etc. The far-flung suburbs and exurbs with more cookie-cutter development, which have once again ramped up in terms of growth, is where the focus of concern should be. I think it's possible the future trajectory of those areas just may mirror what we saw in the urban cores of older cities with respect to slum clearance and the like, interestingly enough.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
3,550 posts, read 3,008,820 times
Reputation: 9692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pac_5 View Post
That's a great personal testimonial and all, but you do realize that you represent a small, small fraction of people that want to move - and are probably one of less than ten people that left a thriving city for a dead one in upstate New York. Yes, the sunbelt is not the best place for Hispters or underpaid "creative" types that can't nail down an actual career (the best of that class ends up on the coasts anyways), but for the vast majority of people with real jobs and families, the opportunities and ways of life are better. You learn these things when you get older, your paycheck grows and responsibilities get a bit more "real".

The net migration is several million people the other way, but I am glad that people are still willing to keep the lights on in the Rust Belt - I would hate to see that part of our country struggle more than it should. Not everyone who lives in the cold should exclusively live in a city of East Coast significance.
According to the latest posted Census ACS data (2008-2012) an average of 294 people per year moved from Erie County, Monroe County, and Onondaga County to Harris County Texas (Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse to Houston).

During the same time period, using the same data set, 250 people per year moved TO the NY counties from Harris County Texas.

Although that is a slight net loss for NY, there are many people who do relocate from the Sunbelt to Rust Belt (more than "ten") on a yearly basis. Perhaps amazingly, Erie County even showed a net GAIN of 73 people per year moving FROM Harris County.

Source:
https://www.census.gov/hhes/migratio...8_to_2012.html

Houston, like any boom town, has wild swings in its economy along with structural and climate issues.
Texas led nation in job losses in March, ending 53-month hiring streak - Houston Chronicle
Houston-area oil layoffs came quickly, cut deep - Houston Chronicle
Houston's heady real estate gains likely to decline - Houston Chronicle
http://www.weather.com/safety/floods...wildest-images
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:12 PM
 
91,844 posts, read 121,885,331 times
Reputation: 18129
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
According to the latest posted Census ACS data (2008-2012) an average of 294 people per year moved from Erie County, Monroe County, and Onondaga County to Harris County Texas (Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse to Houston).

During the same time period, using the same data set, 250 people per year moved TO the NY counties from Harris County Texas.

Although that is a slight net loss for NY, there are many people who do relocate from the Sunbelt to Rust Belt (more than "ten") on a yearly basis. Perhaps amazingly, Erie County even showed a net GAIN of 73 people per year moving FROM Harris County.

Source:
https://www.census.gov/hhes/migratio...8_to_2012.html

Houston, like any boom town, has wild swings in its economy along with structural and climate issues.
Texas led nation in job losses in March, ending 53-month hiring streak - Houston Chronicle
Houston-area oil layoffs came quickly, cut deep - Houston Chronicle
Houston's heady real estate gains likely to decline - Houston Chronicle
http://www.weather.com/safety/floods...wildest-images
Good information and I don't think people realize that those Upstate NY cities are actually seeing some investment within the city limits and 2 out of 3 of those metros actually had a population increase between 2000 and 2010.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:16 PM
 
37,778 posts, read 41,410,675 times
Reputation: 27011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
According to the latest posted Census ACS data (2008-2012) an average of 294 people per year moved from Erie County, Monroe County, and Onondaga County to Harris County Texas (Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse to Houston).

During the same time period, using the same data set, 250 people per year moved TO the NY counties from Harris County Texas.

Although that is a slight net loss for NY, there are many people who do relocate from the Sunbelt to Rust Belt (more than "ten") on a yearly basis. Perhaps amazingly, Erie County even showed a net GAIN of 73 people per year moving FROM Harris County.

Source:
https://www.census.gov/hhes/migratio...8_to_2012.html

Houston, like any boom town, has wild swings in its economy along with structural and climate issues.
Texas led nation in job losses in March, ending 53-month hiring streak - Houston Chronicle
Houston-area oil layoffs came quickly, cut deep - Houston Chronicle
Houston's heady real estate gains likely to decline - Houston Chronicle
http://www.weather.com/safety/floods...wildest-images
Houston is is so far removed from upstate NY, so that's not surprising. But I but the migration flows from upstate NY to the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida would be substantially higher. All in all, the flows from North to South (and California to the South and Southwest) follow very similar trajectories as they did during the Great Migration, but in the opposite direction.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:25 PM
 
91,844 posts, read 121,885,331 times
Reputation: 18129
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
According to the latest posted Census ACS data (2008-2012) an average of 294 people per year moved from Erie County, Monroe County, and Onondaga County to Harris County Texas (Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse to Houston).

During the same time period, using the same data set, 250 people per year moved TO the NY counties from Harris County Texas.

Although that is a slight net loss for NY, there are many people who do relocate from the Sunbelt to Rust Belt (more than "ten") on a yearly basis. Perhaps amazingly, Erie County even showed a net GAIN of 73 people per year moving FROM Harris County.

Source:
https://www.census.gov/hhes/migratio...8_to_2012.html

Houston, like any boom town, has wild swings in its economy along with structural and climate issues.
Texas led nation in job losses in March, ending 53-month hiring streak - Houston Chronicle
Houston-area oil layoffs came quickly, cut deep - Houston Chronicle
Houston's heady real estate gains likely to decline - Houston Chronicle
http://www.weather.com/safety/floods...wildest-images
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Houston is is so far removed from upstate NY, so that's not surprising. But I but the migration flows from upstate NY to the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida would be substantially higher. All in all, the flows from North to South (and California to the South and Southwest) follow very similar trajectories as they did during the Great Migration, but in the opposite direction.
This true, but I think the difference is that a lot of those migrating to parts of the South are due to retirement, whereas the migration to the North in the past was almost exclusively for social and/or economic reasons.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:50 PM
 
37,778 posts, read 41,410,675 times
Reputation: 27011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
This true, but I think the difference is that a lot of those migrating to parts of the South are due to retirement, whereas the migration to the North in the past was almost exclusively for social and/or economic reasons.
Well it's more of a mixture now. The Triangle, Charlotte, and Atlanta are getting migrants mostly for economic and social reasons. The coastal areas of the Carolinas, Georgia, and much of Florida are getting a lot of retirees.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:13 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,615 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pac_5 View Post
That's a great personal testimonial and all, but you do realize that you represent a small, small fraction of people that want to move - and are probably one of less than ten people that left a thriving city for a dead one in upstate New York. Yes, the sunbelt is not the best place for Hispters or underpaid "creative" types that can't nail down an actual career (the best of that class ends up on the coasts anyways), but for the vast majority of people with real jobs and families, the opportunities and ways of life are better. You learn these things when you get older, your paycheck grows and responsibilities get a bit more "real".

The net migration is several million people the other way, but I am glad that people are still willing to keep the lights on in the Rust Belt - I would hate to see that part of our country struggle more than it should. Not everyone who lives in the cold should exclusively live in a city of East Coast significance.
Your comments are both rude and presumptuous. For the record, I am not an underpaid "creative type" or "hipster" that cannot "nail down a career" with responsibilities that are not "real". I was recruited for an executive-level position, and yes, I have a "real" family with a paycheck that has grown into the six-figure range.

By the way, 'Architecture' is indeed a real career--a practice like medicine or law.

Furthermore, your tone sounds like the Sunbelt PR machine. That machine continues to fight the Civil War through ignorant policies, misinformation, and "holding their ground" on issues like flying the "stars and bars" on the grounds of the South Carolina capitol--even in the aftermath of the most recent tragedy.

Respectfully, your lack of knowledge regarding new economic growth and recent investment in cities of the Upstate New York technology/education corridor is quite obvious. I recommend educating yourself on the region before calling it "dead". Unlike you, however, I shall not make any assumptions regarding your age, career, or lifestyle.

I respect that the Sunbelt may be a wonderful place for those with roots there. Mine are not. The Northerners who have relocated to the Sunbelt are, generally speaking, far more conservative than the ones who remain back home. The transplants made a choice and some of their motivations are quite unsavory. That said, for those who cannot "make it" up north or on the coasts, it clearly serves their needs.

The Southeastern part of the Sunbelt, including Texas, continues to have a strong undercurrent that is resiliently anti-Northern, anti-academic, anti-liberal, anti-Yankee, anti-"coastal elite", and so on. To me (as a "Yankee") that's unacceptable and reveals a real lack of openness, as well as the source of the region's deep social fragmentation.

Last edited by fromsuntorust; 06-22-2015 at 12:26 AM..
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:49 AM
 
37,778 posts, read 41,410,675 times
Reputation: 27011
Quote:
Originally Posted by fromsuntorust View Post
Furthermore, your tone sounds like the Sunbelt PR machine. That machine continues to fight the Civil War through ignorant policies, misinformation, and "holding their ground" on issues like flying the "stars and bars" on the grounds of the South Carolina capitol--even in the aftermath of the most recent tragedy.
You DO realize that the Sunbelt includes the Southwest and West Coast, areas that have absolutely nothing to do with the Confederacy right? Furthermore, SC isn't home to a major Sunbelt city nor does it have a large corporate base, factors which play into that sort of "living in the past" mindset which you don't find in region's major Southern cities.

Quote:
I respect that the Sunbelt may be a wonderful place for those with roots there. Mine are not.
It seems to be just the opposite to me. Because the Sunbelt is home to a ton of transplants, it's generally easier to form social connections there as opposed to a place where the vast majority of people are from there, like the Rustbelt. This is why the terms "insular" and "provincial" are generally used to describe several cities in the region that aren't getting as many transplants, whereas you'll very rarely, if ever, hear that term applied to LA, San Diego, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Houston, DFW, Austin, San Antonio, Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, etc.

Quote:
The Northerners who have relocated to the Sunbelt are, generally speaking, far more conservative than the ones who remain back home. The transplants made a choice and some of their motivations are quite unsavory. That said, for those who cannot "make it" up north or on the coasts, it clearly serves their needs.
Voting trends will show that this is not the case for many Sunbelt states. An influx of transplants is what has made NC a battleground state recently, and Georgia is trending in the same direction. Florida is a classic toss-up state at this point, and even Texas's days are numbered as a reliably red state.

And contrary to reason, there have been plenty of people who were "making it" up North who decided to move South to do even better.

It's a shame that you're castigating the entire region just because Houston wasn't your cup of tea.

Last edited by Mutiny77; 06-22-2015 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:47 AM
 
602 posts, read 498,582 times
Reputation: 762
@Mutiny77 - Actually in the case of Texas the main reason (at least to me) that it's becoming less "red" is the high number of Hispanics (who lean more "blue" than the general population).
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