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Old 09-21-2012, 07:34 PM
 
578 posts, read 1,093,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
He's playing the victim and the "northern elitist" card.
True true. Ever the victim I suppose
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
10,219 posts, read 15,934,635 times
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Reb I was just in the downtown area of Dallas and managed to see the skyline at night from the top of Reunion Tower. I have also seen Fort Worth, Abilene, and Amarillo as well.

So is there any part of Texas at all that is not southern to you? Maybe like El Paso or Laredo? Do you consider all of Florida to be Southern? I know that state is another one that people always debate the Southernness of.

I think the most "Southern" city I've visited is Savannah.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:29 PM
 
10,239 posts, read 19,613,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Reb I was just in the downtown area of Dallas and managed to see the skyline at night from the top of Reunion Tower. I have also seen Fort Worth, Abilene, and Amarillo as well.
I am sure you have. What I was asking earlier was, have you ever gotten off the beaten path in the DFW area? Not the glitter and glamor of "New Dallas." It is just a cosmetic farce of what the city really was at one time. Ft. Worth? It has that "western image" -- and a lot of it is hype and tourism. Who can blame them. My point is, Ft. Worth has strong Southern roots. In fact, it wouldn't be what it is today without the overwhelming influence of southeastern settlers who brought their attitudes and culture to the city. They moved "west" to get a new start, sure. But Ft. Worth was "frontier West"...totally different than having any real similarities with the true SW or the Rocky Mountain West. Again, "western South"...like Wichita, Kansas was "western Midwest. It is just a whole different critter...

Quote:
So is there any part of Texas at all that is not southern to you? Maybe like El Paso or Laredo?
Uhhhhh, I hope you are not being sarcastic. If you are, it is highly out of touch with anything I have ever said. Because for one thing, I have always agreed/made that point myself. That is, no, taken in its seperate parts, the trans-pecos region of Texas is definitely not "Southern"..but a part of the interior SW of New Mexico and Arizona (with the notation that even El Paso has some early Southern influences).

Far south Texas is getting more and more iffy. The far northern panhandle (i.e. north of, and perhaps including, Amarillo) have always been, at least, as much Plains Midwestern as Southern.

BUT...when taken as a whole, Texas is essentially a Southern state. Even West Texas (sans the trans-pecos) has more historically and culturally in common with the South (where the vast majority of their settlers and decendents came from) than it does with the true SW. Topographically, of course, this is not true. But in the essential elements, it is.

So yes, there are parts of Texas I don't really consider "Southern". But they are anomolies. And again, even they have some Southern influences that do not exist in the interior SW, at all.

Quote:
Do you consider all of Florida to be Southern? I know that state is another one that people always debate the Southernness of.
That is a good question, TomL. Yes, in the sense it is historically (and certainly geographically) Southern. And north Florida is comparable to East Texas in the sense of both being extensions of the Deep South.

But in this realm, the point of diversion is that, unlike in Texas, a goodly part of Florida has become -- even more so than south Texas -- almost totally devoid of most of its Southern origins and roots. That saddens me, in fact...

Quote:
I think the most "Southern" city I've visited is Savannah.
Never been there, but want to visit it. From what I have heard about it, I would agree with you. Especially if one defines "the South" in terms of the "Old South" imagery and cultivation of the same.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:28 AM
 
811 posts, read 1,054,925 times
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Of the major metropolitan areas in the south with over one million residents, Birmingham has the fewest yankees. Memphis is probably second in this regard.

The northerner population in Birmingham is probably anywhere from 5-7%. In Memphis, it's probably only around 10%.

Other cities in the South, in terms of of northern transplants, as far as can be seen:

Nashville: 15-20%
Charlotte: 25%
Raleigh-Durham: 35%
Atlanta: 25%
New Orleans: 20%
Richmond: 30%
Norfolk/Va. Beach: 40%
Louisville: 35%
Jacksonville: 20%
Orlando: 50%
Tampa/St. Petersburg: 50%

The smaller southern metros have far less:

Macon: 3%
Columbus: 8%
Augusta: 7%
Savannah: 15%
Greenville, SC: 12%
Montgomery: 2%
Jackson: 2%
Columbia: 12%
Charleston: 35% (anomaly)
Knoxville: 8%
Chattanooga: 7%
Roanoke: 15%
Danville: 9%
Lexington: 20%
Baton Rouge: 10%
Mobile: 8%
Huntsville: 15%
Gulfport/Biloxi: 17%
Shreveport: 12%
Brunswick: 8%

relatively speaking, not scientific
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:27 AM
 
73,028 posts, read 62,634,962 times
Reputation: 21936
This is the way I see it, and I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again. As long as people want to move cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Miami, Orlando, Tidewater Region of Virginia, and other large metros of the South, they are going to come. It is the large metros that are attracting transplants from northern cities and the West Coast. It is what it is.

Personally, I have no problem with the new transplants being there. I have personal experience because I'm the son of a transplant, and a former Seattle resident. If people are looking for the Old South charm, then I suggest the smaller cities. Personally, if I had to make my pick between the cities with old south charm and the large cities like Atlanta or Charlotte, I would pick Atlanta or Charlotte. Just my preference. I feel I would fit in better there than the smaller southern cities like Macon or Montgomery.
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:50 AM
 
811 posts, read 1,054,925 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
I am sure you have. What I was asking earlier was, have you ever gotten off the beaten path in the DFW area? Not the glitter and glamor of "New Dallas." It is just a cosmetic farce of what the city really was at one time. Ft. Worth? It has that "western image" -- and a lot of it is hype and tourism. Who can blame them. My point is, Ft. Worth has strong Southern roots. In fact, it wouldn't be what it is today without the overwhelming influence of southeastern settlers who brought their attitudes and culture to the city. They moved "west" to get a new start, sure. But Ft. Worth was "frontier West"...totally different than having any real similarities with the true SW or the Rocky Mountain West. Again, "western South"...like Wichita, Kansas was "western Midwest. It is just a whole different critter...



Uhhhhh, I hope you are not being sarcastic. If you are, it is highly out of touch with anything I have ever said. Because for one thing, I have always agreed/made that point myself. That is, no, taken in its seperate parts, the trans-pecos region of Texas is definitely not "Southern"..but a part of the interior SW of New Mexico and Arizona (with the notation that even El Paso has some early Southern influences).

Far south Texas is getting more and more iffy. The far northern panhandle (i.e. north of, and perhaps including, Amarillo) have always been, at least, as much Plains Midwestern as Southern.

BUT...when taken as a whole, Texas is essentially a Southern state. Even West Texas (sans the trans-pecos) has more historically and culturally in common with the South (where the vast majority of their settlers and decendents came from) than it does with the true SW. Topographically, of course, this is not true. But in the essential elements, it is.

So yes, there are parts of Texas I don't really consider "Southern". But they are anomolies. And again, even they have some Southern influences that do not exist in the interior SW, at all.



That is a good question, TomL. Yes, in the sense it is historically (and certainly geographically) Southern. And north Florida is comparable to East Texas in the sense of both being extensions of the Deep South.

But in this realm, the point of diversion is that, unlike in Texas, a goodly part of Florida has become -- even more so than south Texas -- almost totally devoid of most of its Southern origins and roots. That saddens me, in fact...



Never been there, but want to visit it. From what I have heard about it, I would agree with you. Especially if one defines "the South" in terms of the "Old South" imagery and cultivation of the same.
Texas Reb, when I traveled through Texas, I noted a lot of southern accents in the Abilene and Midland areas. They seemed like culturally southern areas in a landscape different than most of the south. Far less trees. Like the South out on parts of the southern great plains.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:58 AM
 
784 posts, read 1,982,318 times
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I don't think an area becomes less a part of the South because non-Southern people move in. They have an impact, yes, but they don't necessarily change whether or not the area in in the South, Northeast, etc. For example, during the Great Migrations, when many African-Americans moved to Northern cities, they took Southern culture with them and it had an impact on the culture of the areas they settled in. Also, several years ago, I saw a thing on tv where they were saying that some Southerners were retiring and choosing to spend their golden years in the interior Northeast, such as upstate New York and western Massachusetts. They, too bring Southern culture with them, but for some reason, people never argue whether these places are becomig less northern. Same with the South. A place in the South may no longer feel culturally Southern, but that does not change the fact that it is.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:31 AM
 
6,610 posts, read 9,040,017 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound of Reason View Post
Of the major metropolitan areas in the south with over one million residents, Birmingham has the fewest yankees. Memphis is probably second in this regard.

The northerner population in Birmingham is probably anywhere from 5-7%. In Memphis, it's probably only around 10%.

Other cities in the South, in terms of of northern transplants, as far as can be seen:

Nashville: 15-20%
Charlotte: 25%
Raleigh-Durham: 35%
Atlanta: 25%
New Orleans: 20%
Richmond: 30%
Norfolk/Va. Beach: 40%
Louisville: 35%
Jacksonville: 20%
Orlando: 50%
Tampa/St. Petersburg: 50%

The smaller southern metros have far less:

Macon: 3%
Columbus: 8%
Augusta: 7%
Savannah: 15%
Greenville, SC: 12%
Montgomery: 2%
Jackson: 2%
Columbia: 12%
Charleston: 35% (anomaly)
Knoxville: 8%
Chattanooga: 7%
Roanoke: 15%
Danville: 9%
Lexington: 20%
Baton Rouge: 10%
Mobile: 8%
Huntsville: 15%
Gulfport/Biloxi: 17%
Shreveport: 12%
Brunswick: 8%

relatively speaking, not scientific
I'm curious about where you got these figures...or are they simply your opinion? I don't know how someone could form opinions into percentages like this - that's why I'm asking.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:33 AM
 
6,610 posts, read 9,040,017 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
This is the way I see it, and I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again. As long as people want to move cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Miami, Orlando, Tidewater Region of Virginia, and other large metros of the South, they are going to come. It is the large metros that are attracting transplants from northern cities and the West Coast. It is what it is.

Personally, I have no problem with the new transplants being there. I have personal experience because I'm the son of a transplant, and a former Seattle resident. If people are looking for the Old South charm, then I suggest the smaller cities. Personally, if I had to make my pick between the cities with old south charm and the large cities like Atlanta or Charlotte, I would pick Atlanta or Charlotte. Just my preference. I feel I would fit in better there than the smaller southern cities like Macon or Montgomery.
While it isn't as obvious, you can easily find "old South charm" in both Atlanta and Charlotte...it's all over the place, but it just isn't the first thing that catches your eye.
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:02 PM
 
10,239 posts, read 19,613,058 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound of Reason View Post
Texas Reb, when I traveled through Texas, I noted a lot of southern accents in the Abilene and Midland areas. They seemed like culturally southern areas in a landscape different than most of the south. Far less trees. Like the South out on parts of the southern great plains.
Very true! For all its proud autonomy in legend, the typical "Texas accent" (there isn't really one, but the one spoken in rural West Texas is the one usually presented as being such), is just one sub-variety of what is broadly known as Southern American English.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Map.jpg/800px-

Most of those speakers with the stereotypical "Texas twang" would be right at home linguistically in eastern Tennessee or north Alabama (where a disproportionate number of the original west Texas pioneers came from).

A noteable story was related to me once by a friend of mine who was originally from north Alabama. Her husband (also from that area), got a job in south Mississippi, and it is where they have resided for over 30 years. Anyway, she told me that when she first got a job with the local school district, a native of the area asked where she was from originally.

She good-naturedly asked "What makes you think I am not from here?"

The other lady replied "Because you just don't sound like you are. From the South, definitely, but not south Mississippi."

My friend laughed and replied "No, I am from north Alabama."

The other nodded knowingly and said "I was going to guess either north Alabama...or Texas!"
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