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View Poll Results: Is the West part of the North?
Yes, the West is culturally an extension of the North 5 9.80%
The West is mix of Northern and Southern influences 5 9.80%
No, The West is a third category of its own 39 76.47%
I actually think the West is an extension of the South 2 3.92%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-27-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The Pacific Northwest, even the rural parts seem to have far more in common with the north than the south. Think the same is true with the Bay Area.
A huge chunk of the Southern San Joaquin Valley (Kern, Tulare, Kings, and to an extent Fresno County) was settled majorly by Dust Bowl migrants from Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Texas.

http://faculty.washington.edu/gregoryj/legacies.pdf
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/afctshtml/tsme.html

Nowadays, these areas are either plurality or outright majority Mexican (ironically, from similarly socioeconomically depressed agricultural regions in Mexico), but the cultural impact that these Lower Midwestern and Southern migrants had on the local culture of the area is palpable.

Bakersfield is considered the "Country Music Capital of California", with one of the major thoroughfares being named Buck Owens Blvd, named after a country music star.

Before the compromise of 1850, there was a proposal to admit California as two states, one as a free state and one as a slave state, with the line being roughly the current northern border of San Luis Obispo, Kern, and San Bernardino counties, but that plan was rejected.

Further north in the San Joaquin and Sacramento Valleys, the migrants had more of a Midwestern tinge. The rural areas around the Bay Area, especially the areas directly east of the Bay Area, isn't really that rural nowadays. More like exploding exurbia.

As for Arizona, nowadays a huge chunk of the migrants not from California are from the Midwest, but they typically aren't in the more rural areas but rather around Phoenix and Tucson.

Resident Population Data - 2010 Census

After travelling through a huge chunk of the West, the whole "North/South" paradigm doesn't really take that much of a hold here. Since 1970, the population of the Western United States has more than doubled, and has grown by more than 10 fold since 1900. Much of the population in the West (namely the Asian and Hispanic populations) didn't have that much exposure to the North/South paradigm before living in this region while most of the post 1970 domestic migrants grew up in an era of mass communication where the differences between north and south have become considerably more muted.

The correct answer, to be sure, would be "Neither". However, given how much effect the mass media has on us all, I'd slightly tilt it toward the North considering a huge chunk of the media is located there, but even then it's not enough to say that it's an extension of the north. We're just our own thing out here.

Think of us like the Swiss: we're all stuck in our own little mountain valleys or other weird geographic features plotting against the world.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:30 PM
 
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,381 posts, read 22,203,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
After travelling through a huge chunk of the West, the whole "North/South" paradigm doesn't really take that much of a hold here. Since 1970, the population of the Western United States has more than doubled, and has grown by more than 10 fold since 1900. Much of the population in the West (namely the Asian and Hispanic populations) didn't have that much exposure to the North/South paradigm before living in this region while most of the post 1970 domestic migrants grew up in an era of mass communication where the differences between north and south have become considerably more muted.

The correct answer, to be sure, would be "Neither". However, given how much effect the mass media has on us all, I'd slightly tilt it toward the North considering a huge chunk of the media is located there, but even then it's not enough to say that it's an extension of the north. We're just our own thing out here.

Think of us like the Swiss: we're all stuck in our own little mountain valleys or other weird geographic features plotting against the world.
Excellent Post! I'd say for me the absense of a true North/South divide is a basis of appeal for the West. I stear clear of the threads discussing where lines and boundaries are culturally and geographically drawn between North and South (Mason Dixon etc..), simply because I just don't care and in the West we're just not really thinking about it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 7,089,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caphillsea77 View Post
Excellent Post! I'd say for me the absense of a true North/South divide is a basis of appeal for the West. I stear clear of the threads discussing where lines and boundaries are culturally and geographically drawn between North and South (Mason Dixon etc..), simply because I just don't care and in the West we're just not really thinking about it.
I steer clear of those threads as well, mostly because I've never lived in the South. I don't like to stereotype or make intellectual statements about places I've never been to, especially since I've known plenty of people from the South who aren't that much different than I am.

Out West, the closest thing we have to a "North/South" divide is the divide between Northern and Southern California, or in a larger sphere, the Northwest vs. Southwest, but even then it's not that big of a thing considering that the population of the West is extremely fluid. There aren't very many multi-generational Westerners out here which lends to the lack of a cohesive identity, never mind the whole "North/South" paradigm. Heck, it wasn't even until 2010 that native born Californians made a majority of California's population:

Native-born Californians regain majority status - Los Angeles Times

Compare that to states like Nevada, where less than 1/4 residents are actually born there.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...omPIssLhgWv7ZA

And according to the census, a mere 13.6% of Nevada adults were actually born there.

Interactive: Sticky States | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

Very fluid human geography we have out here.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:48 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,537,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
here aren't very many multi-generational Westerners out here which lends to the lack of a cohesive identity, never mind the whole "North/South" paradigm. Heck, it wasn't even until 2010 that native born Californians made a majority of California's population:
I'm a rare exception. My family on at least 2 of its 4 sides (I actually don't know who my dad's father is) was in California since the 19th century. The other side, my grandma is from South East England.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:02 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 8,514,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamoLA View Post
As a native Californian, I've never felt like a "northerner" or "southerner".

I've always thought of myself as a "West Coast guy"...

Maybe the question should be asked of Southerners: do you consider people in the West to be Yankees?
Funny thing is, some of them do think you're Yankees. I've actually heard a few of them say so.
I worked with a guy once that didn't think I was southern because I wasn't from as far south as he was.............
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
I'm a rare exception. My family on at least 2 of its 4 sides (I actually don't know who my dad's father is) was in California since the 19th century. The other side, my grandma is from South East England.
Yeah, I feel like my sort of lineage is a bit more common, especially in California:

My parents were immigrants and came here a few years before I was born.

I've met long time California natives myself, and it's so weird to talk to them about the changes to the area. Finding a 3rd or 4th generation Californian is more rare than finding gold nowadays, LOL.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
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To many southerners I know, if you are not southern, you are a Yankee whether you like it or not.

The West is not the North, but that sure doesn't mean it is the South.

All that said, much if not most of the West seems like a cultural descendant of the North, (NE and Midwest) but there are some places with significant Southern influence, especially via West Texan/Dustbowl era influence, making the West far more culturally diverse, even from a strictly Anglo-American perspective, than many people think.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:44 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,189 posts, read 7,599,010 times
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The West is the West it is not the North or the South. It is different from both of them. And to the California guy, I do not know of anyone who considers Westerners Yankees. That sounds ridiculous to most.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:13 PM
 
1,018 posts, read 1,763,769 times
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There was another thread where we talked about the Upper Midwest-Pacific Northwest connection. But apart that I think it's more a matter of how the areas got settled. And remember that many of the settlement patterns in California, New Mexico and other parts of the Southwest were set initially by the Spanish and Mexicans. Also, the primary political/ sociological divide in the West Coast states these days is not north-south, but east-west, between the more urban, liberal, high tech coasts and the more rural, conservative, agricultural inland areas.So as many have said, north-south doesn't work here.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:49 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,537,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011 View Post
The West is the West it is not the North or the South. It is different from both of them. And to the California guy, I do not know of anyone who considers Westerners Yankees. That sounds ridiculous to most.
Are North Dakotans say Yankees?
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