There's lot of Southern threads so let's talk about Northern! (live, food)

[Blinx]

Originally Posted by David_J

Where would New York state + city fit in?

That's a good question! To me, NYC = Mid-Atlantic, and upstate NY = New England. But I'm not from there -- New Yorkers -- what do you think?

[just_sayin']

Upstate NY a mix of New England and Great Lakes....and in some parts even a bit of Appalachia.

[Georgiafrog]

Some good posts here. I think the reason there is such an obsession with the south is that it really is a distinct culture within the country. Some love it, some hate it. But it is different. It really is true that the definition of northern is "not southern".

In many ways, the south has contributed to American culture more than any other region. Rock and Roll, Bluegrass, Country, Jazz, and the Blues all originated in the south, even if typified in other cities (Detroit, NYC, K.C., St. Louis).

The south is also the only region that has truly ever experienced defeat and real poverty, being an occupied territory in some cases into the 1900's. That brings a certain amount of cohesiveness itself. Many deep generation southern families pass down the history of our ancestors. Much of the north's population immigrated here after the war.

Also, call me a "revisionist", but there are things about "The Civil War" that are not universally understood. History is written by the victors in almost every case, and so that war seems straightforward to many people educated in our public system. North=Good for opposing slavery, South=Bad for promoting it. Doesn't come close to telling the whole story.

So, I think that it is obvious why the south gets more attention. There is a sense of communal struggle and experience here that exists nowhere else in the United States. While there are obvious cultural differences in regions of the north, they are much more alike than the southern thang.

[Johnny C]

Northern means many things to me:

-Four real seasons, and snow storms do not mean that society shuts down.
-Hard work and a fast pace. Not saying or implying that southerners are not hard workers, so calm down, y'all.
-Just as many rednecks as the south, but a different kind of redneck. We shoot elk, bear, moose and all without using dogs.
-Many religious people in the North, but many more Catholics / Presbyterians / Methodists and less Baptists.

We have Northern food / traditions as well, such as pork / kraut on new years day,ect. When I lived down South, they fed me Black Eyed Peas on New Years Day. This is just one example - there are more.

I like the south - just trying to answer the OP's question about the North. I have lived in both, but am much more Northern at heart.

[cacto]

Originally Posted by Blinx

Nope.

Let's sub-divide this some more. The New England northern states DO have an identifiable, distinctive Yankee culture, replete with their own stereotypes.

Pennsylvania, the "Keystone State" (6 original colonies both above and below us), falls in the "Mid-Atlantic" region (in no-way be part of the New England States). I would put Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey here (and maybe Ohio?). But a separate and distinctive culture? No, I'd probably say this was the US "cultural norm" that you stated.

Northern states west of the Great Lakes that border Canada along with the states directly below them... do they also have a cohesive culture? I don't know -- I'm really not as familiar with them as I am with the East Coast states.

If people outside of those areas can't tell they have a distinctive culture then they don't. It's not distinct.

[TRoweP]

40th degree north in europe is not the same as in US. Barcelona is on 42th degree north and the weather is mediterreanean. It never snows, rarely below freezing and almost never below zero. Quite a different climate in continental US. You will have to travel to 55N in europe to see some snow and typically 60N is what u would see what you see in 42N here in US. Gulf stream keeps the weather in europe mild compared to US. I wouldn't doubt 37N being a northern place if europe is your yardstick.

[Sharks With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Blinx

Nope.

Let's sub-divide this some more. The New England northern states DO have an identifiable, distinctive Yankee culture, replete with their own stereotypes.

Pennsylvania, the "Keystone State" (6 original colonies both above and below us), falls in the "Mid-Atlantic" region (in no-way be part of the New England States). I would put Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey here (and maybe Ohio?). But a separate and distinctive culture? No, I'd probably say this was the US "cultural norm" that you stated.

Northern states west of the Great Lakes that border Canada along with the states directly below them... do they also have a cohesive culture? I don't know -- I'm really not as familiar with them as I am with the East Coast states.

Well, there are distinctive subcultures across the country, including in different places in the South. And yes, I do think there is some cohesiveness across the Midwest in terms of culture. There's kind of a pervasive underlying agricultural and small-town heritage that seems to permeate the entire region (even in urban areas,) but it's also a live and let live kind of phenomena.

But I would say that the number of characteristics that provide cohesiveness in the South is larger than it is for other regions.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by TRoweP

40th degree north in europe is not the same as in US. Barcelona is on 42th degree north and the weather is mediterreanean. It never snows, rarely below freezing and almost never below zero. Quite a different climate in continental US. You will have to travel to 55N in europe to see some snow and typically 60N is what u would see what you see in 42N here in US. Gulf stream keeps the weather in europe mild compared to US. I wouldn't doubt 37N being a northern place if europe is your yardstick.

40th degree north is not the dividing line between north and south. I live on halfway between the 38th and 39th and it is not Southern at all.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Exactly. Without the South, there would be no concept of "the North" within the U.S. It only exists in opposition to the South. Otherwise it would just be called "American" culture.



In general cultural boundaries get fuzzier the further west you get, and the divides are often within states. The area around the Great Lakes, going west into the Dakotas, has an "upper Midwestern" culture which draws a lot on Yankee traditions. In contrast, the Lower Midwest was settled by Pennsylvanians (and in some cases southerners). Hence why Cincinnati and Cleveland, despite both being in Ohio, look and talk nothing alike, with Cincinnati more like Pittsburgh or Saint Louis, and Cleveland more like Buffalo or CHicago.

When you go past the Great Plains, there are basically no cultural distinctions, minus say some lingering Yankee influence among Mormons and in the Bay Area and the like. The West is too newly settled to have developed highly distinctive identities or accents yet. It's fair enough to say it's all General American.

Cincinnati and Cleveland look or talk nothing alike? What planet are you living on? these two cities have more in common with each other than compared to cities from other regions. The Lower and Upper Midwest have more in common with each other than either with the South or the Northeast.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by Blinx

That's a good question! To me, NYC = Mid-Atlantic, and upstate NY = New England. But I'm not from there -- New Yorkers -- what do you think?

Upstate New York is NOT New England. It doesn't have the dialect, for starters.