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=ScoPro;30098605]Please don't lump Texas in with the South.
We are a "whole other country".
We are also part of the South. And always have been. If one took out the Southern traits from Texas then it would not be recognized as Texas.
This whole notion that Texas is Old West in the sense of being non-Southern is probably the most non-sensical in modern history, and largely because of Hollywood movies.
Yes, we are a whole 'nother country", I agree. But part of the reason is we are -- again, I agree -- have traits -- in many parts -- that are atypical of the eastern South.
But as many point out? Texas culture, religious, linguistics, outlook, politics, etc, have always been essentially Southern. It is completely ridiculous to group Texas (as a whole) into the true West or Interior Southwest in terms of the above qualities of essence. Those states did not even become states until long after Texas was already primarily settled by anglo and blacks from the southeast. The whole Mexico influence is something recent and one of largely illegal immigration.
The Old West? Again, yes, but like the frontier strip. Is Kansas a western state? Yes it is. Is it a Midwestern state? Yes, it is. Texas is both Southern and western, but its primary roots are Southern, with a western flair. Totally different from the true West. We were Cotton and Confederate from the start. And really, our natural allies are the southeastern states that sent the settlers this way.
I will challenge you or anyone else (and I mean this in a respectful way, definitely ) to show history/culture of Texas being more akin to Arizona or Colorado than that of Tennessee or Alabama (where most settlers came from).
BTW, too? I can't wait to answer your list. It will be fun as hell!
Stuck in the War for Southern Independence era, are you?
Times change, and Texas forged ahead after that conflict and made its own brand.
East Texas was populated heavily by southerners early on, but Central Texas was flooded with Germans, Czechs, & other Europeans, and now I "notice" there's been an increase in the Latino population, not to mention lots of rustbelt folks & Californians. Kind of narrow to claim that this state is still what it was 6 generations ago.
Sweet tea? How about beer & hard liquor, notably Bourbon & Vodka?
Southern accent? Texas twang is not southern - it's Texan.....and it's been fading out in the past half century. Sure, a lot of rural Texans in East Texas probably sound like southerners, but that's just one part of the state.
Catholics outnumber Southern Baptists in the state too.
As I said previously, Texas is a "whole other country" - made up of all parts of America, Europe, Mexico, etc. ....and the State tourist bureau says so.
I'm a native Georgian too.
Moses Austin was a Connecticut Yankee and Governor Sam Houston, formerly President of Texas, refused to take the oath of allegiance to the Confederacy.
Not stuck at all, but I can appreciate that an area's history carries forth even amidst a myriad of changes. As one who has spent the majority of his adult life in Georgia or Texas, I attest that the BIGGEST difference in the two states is in the topography, not the culture... and if you are in East Texas, not even many differences there. Georgia has many outliers to Southern culture too, each state does. That is what makes them unique.
Texas certainly is the most unique of all southern states because of its location, topography and history, but I will let Texas Reb school you on why it is a southern state thru and thru.
To get back to the original topic, I would say that what seems like a tilt toward Western states being more friendly to transplants is that most transplants to the western states appreciate what makes them western and don't come in with the complaining and whining about what is. Southerners have experienced this time and time again... and not from all, but from enough that it is downright irksome and might come across as counter to our famous Southern hospitality. Many transplants move in and start the "Back where we are from...." and then start to bash something about the south. When you hear enough of this kind of talk, you want to give them a map with routes pointing back north in bold.
I suspect this is the biggest difference in the welcoming factor between the two regions. Goes back to the age old demeaning of anything southern.
This is going to be fun! I always enjoy exchanging with someone who is, when it comes right down to it, feels ashamed of being from the South.
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Originally Posted by ScoPro
Stuck in the War for Southern Independence era, are you?
Oh wow! Real clever and cute, huh? *disgusted look* The above is just a red-herring way to deflect what was a good question and query.
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Times change, and Texas forged ahead after that conflict and made its own brand.
Yes, Texas went ahead and made its own brand. Which became the final Old Southwest. That is to say, the true South moved west.
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East Texas was populated heavily by southerners early on, but Central Texas was flooded with Germans, Czechs, & other Europeans,
Which link do you want to read first? Does it deny their Southern culture? Does the fact that southern Louisiana was "flooded" with French Cajuns negate their identity as being Southerners and part of the South.
Here is one about the German Confederates. Read it good, will you?
I "notice" there's been an increase in the Latino population, not to mention lots of rustbelt folks & Californians. Kind of narrow to claim that this state is still what it was 6 generations ago.
So what is your point? We all know that. It is due to illegal immigration. Is what wrong or right, in your opinion? Do you think that illegal immigration is going to be accepted forever?
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Sweet tea? How about beer & hard liquor, notably Bourbon & Vodka?
Show me one house in Texas -- anglo and/or black -- that doesn't brew sweet tea. LOL
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Southern accent? Texas twang is not southern - it's Texan.....and it's been fading out in the past half century. Sure, a lot of rural Texans in East Texas probably sound like southerners, but that's just one part of the state.
LOL Where do you get your information? Do you honestly think Texas speech is isolated?. What does mountain Tennessee talk have in common with south Mississippi?
The point is that what is "different" about Texas is that it blends the Upper and Lower South. It is called and connected with Southern American English. The most recent studies bear this out. Texas speech is Southern American English. It is damn sure not western or northeastern or Midwestern.
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Catholics outnumber Southern Baptists in the state too.
LMAO again. Yeah, technically you have a certain point...but most of this is a recent phenomenon. And hey, guess what? Catholics outnumber Southern Baptists in Louisiana as well. Is that a mark against IT being Southern?. But anyway, what you apparently fail to consider is that evangelical Christians FAR outnumber Catholics. Most black and white native Texans identify with the Bible Belt of the South (according to surveys), not Old Mexico Catholic.
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As I said previously, Texas is a "whole other country" - made up of all parts of America, Europe, Mexico, etc. ....and the State tourist bureau says so.
Sure, tell me all about what the Tourist Bureau says. They also say Texas is where the Deep South Meets the Wild West. And I agree. When it comes to Texas, there is no contradiction from being both Southern and Western. Just as there is no contradiction with Kansas being Western and Midwestern. And no contradiction with South Carolina being Southern and Eastern.
On the other hand there IS a contradiction in New Mexico being Western and Southern...but it is the southern West, whereas Texas is the western South!
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I'm a native Georgian too.
So what if you are? Who the hell cares? I don't mean to be rude...but does that make you anything special? The fact you happen to have been born in Georgia doesn't bestow any super credentials that default make you an expert on Southern history. I am not in the least impressed and did you know that the originof the slogan "Empire State of the South" referred to TEXAS?
In 1846, after a decade of desultory independence, Texas joined the United
States, expanding the South's cotton-slave frontier westward and promising to
take its place as the most bountiful plantation region in the country. From 1850
to 1860 the state tose to become the fifth-leading cotton producer in the nation,
and observers predicted even more spectacular growth as more slaves and better
transportation opened up more of Texas's fertile lands to agriculture. Texas,
as the editor of the Austin Texas State Ga?:ette prophesied, was destined to become
the "Empire State of the South."^ On the shores of this potential empire
of cotton and slaves, Galveston also awaited the fulfillment of its promise. Located
on a barrier island about 300 miles west of New Orleans, the city possessed
one of the best natural harbors on the Gulf of Mexico, and its boosters crowed
that if Texas became the South's Empire State, Galveston would be its New
York City. Galveston, another editor predicted, "will undoubtedly, at no distant
day, become the center of commerce rivaling in extent that of many of the first
ON EMPIRE'S SHORE 719
commercial cities of the world. The products of many millions of acres of the
most fertile lands on the globe, and of many rich mines of gold, silver, and iron,
will necessarily be wafted to this spot, rendering Galveston City the commercial
*********************
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Moses Austin was a Connecticut Yankee and Governor Sam Houston, formerly President of Texas, refused to take the oath of allegiance to the Confederacy.
Yankees made up about 5% of settlers. Where as those from the southeastern United States were about 75%. And that did not even count blacks.
Read a bit more about Sam Houston's feelings on the matter when all was said and done! Here ya go again. Happy reading!
The time has come when a man's section is his country. I stand by mine. All my hopes, my fortunes, my affections are centered in the South. When I see the land for whose defence my blood has been spilt, and the people whose fortunes have been mine through more than a quarter of a century of toil, threatened with invasion, I can but cast my lot with theirs, and await the issue.
Being born and raised in Oregon, the anti-Californian attitude stemmed fro the 70's when you had allot of Californians moving to Oregon. It wasn't so much the people it was their attitudes, example: The coastal access to the beaches was pretty much a given, if the property was owned you just asked for permission, well that all changed when Californians started buying up beachfront property and putting fences up all the way to the surf, this pi**** off allot of people, so Oregon voted in the Beach bill in the late 70's establishing public access to ALL beaches on the Oregon coast, the State owned the beaches.
Oregon really never had a school funding problem until the 1970's, there was such an influx of retired Californians come into these areas that it swayed the voting on tax levies to fund schools and other local government.
The Southern Oregon town I was raised in, today you would be hard pressed to find anyone over the age of 30 who isn't from California.
Now don't get me wrong, I could care less where a person is from if they choose to live here, however, when asking a Californian why they moved to Oregon it was said, to escape all the crap in California, then they start doing the same thing in Oregon that they were leaving California for. This was that attitude that pi**** off allot of people.
I'd guess the reason that people in the South may seem unfriendly is because of the perceptions that they show up with. They expect ALL southerners to be biblethumpers, racists, poor, rural, and ultra conservative. Whereas the West coast tends to be more welcoming to all kinds of things. What they don't realize is that major cities tend to be more progressive while rural areas tend to be conservative. So while Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas aren't as progressive as SF and Seattle, there is a stark difference between them and the more rural areas that surround them.
Also, most of Florida is Southern. Outside of Orlando, Tampa, and Miami, the state is culturally Southern. There are some Northern snowbirds that have changed things up in a few places, but the state retains a lot of its Southern values. Hang out near Lake Okeechobee and then say that Florida isn't Southern. Texas is a mix of Southern and Western values, but it definitely shares more with the South than it does with the West (the exceptions being Midland/Odessa and El Paso). DFW and Houston lean more Southern while San Antonio has a mix of South, West, and Hispanic.
People who are native to Western states which have become popular residential destinations for yuppie blue-staters do seem to possess varying degrees of hostility toward coastal transplants, yes, but it clearly has not, all in all, occurred to such an extent that these places are unlivable for said transplants.
In the West, most of the animus is aimed at migrants out of California, especially to places like Arizona, Nevada, Colorado and Texas (Idaho and Montana have also seen their share of this and are often said to be the most unwelcoming), but however adverse the native residents are toward this trend, it's a predictable (if not inevitable) consequence of the coasts' political culture.
Statistically, the Southern region of the country is surpassing the Western region in terms of population growth (and industrial development if I'm not mistaken), and as I understand, much of this population owes itself to migration from the northern states of the Eastern Seaboard, in large part from states like New York and New Jersey (I understand that Northeasterners are increasingly drawn to the West as well, though).
While a stronger population growth trend doesn't translate to native Southerners being more welcoming of transplants, it does indicate that Southerners, more so than Westerners, had probably better get used to it (or, I don't know, migrate westward and help to offset the political consequences of Left Coast migration before the entire West goes the way of Colorado).
I'd guess the reason that people in the South may seem unfriendly is because of the perceptions that they show up with. They expect ALL southerners to be biblethumpers, racists, poor, rural, and ultra conservative. Whereas the West coast tends to be more welcoming to all kinds of things. What they don't realize is that major cities tend to be more progressive while rural areas tend to be conservative. So while Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas aren't as progressive as SF and Seattle, there is a stark difference between them and the more rural areas that surround them.
Also, most of Florida is Southern. Outside of Orlando, Tampa, and Miami, the state is culturally Southern. There are some Northern snowbirds that have changed things up in a few places, but the state retains a lot of its Southern values. Hang out near Lake Okeechobee and then say that Florida isn't Southern. Texas is a mix of Southern and Western values, but it definitely shares more with the South than it does with the West (the exceptions being Midland/Odessa and El Paso). DFW and Houston lean more Southern while San Antonio has a mix of South, West, and Hispanic.
Great post, but I would respectfully mention that -- while I definitely agree about El Paso -- that even the extremes near where the straight Texas/New Mexico border begins, that those cities have quite a bit of Southern history/culture behind them. Well, just for instance, the oldest high school in Midland is named Midland Robert E. Lee...and the mascot is the Rebels. There was a reason for that. Being that most of those who settled that area where Texans and southeasterners moving west. And it makes perfect sense. They must have been proud of it all or it would not exist. Neither would that large parts of western Texas are a couple of the strongest Southern Baptist bastions in the country.
Yes, it is true that (another loss to the idol of political correctness ) that the "overt" motif in schools across the South... is fading out. (That is to say, the old style waving of Confederate Battle Flags and the use of "Dixie" as a fight song, etc) is either being outright banned or else being gradually changed.
For instance, in Amarillo Tascosa High School, what was one a west Texas school proud of its Southern history, has turned loveable "Colonel Reb" into the "Rebel Kid"; which is a parody of a western gunslinger.
The humorous irony is that even with the change, that the Texas Rebel Kid has a real historical solid prototype of being either a Confederate soldier or son of the same. Hell, likely those tough old guys would have probably shot anyone who dared suggest they would be ashamed of their Southern beliefs and values...
Now, I can agree that there is nothing wrong with change over time in some ways. BUT, it seems more and more today that it is NOT gradual and accepted change...but rather, an obvious attempt to become politically correct and distance ourselves from our Southern heritage because it might (gasp!) "offend" someone. Oh lord forbid that we might "offend" someone" if we have the audacity to study and recognize our roots and heritage and culture. (*shrieks with horror*).
Look away, Look Away, Look Away, Dixieland...
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) to show history/culture of Texas being more akin to Arizona or Colorado than that of Tennessee or Alabama (where most settlers came from). 
*disgusted look* The above is just a red-herring way to deflect what was a good question and query. 
