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Yeah, but slavery does not make a place southern. The North had slaves too. And Maryland barely had any slaves at all.
St. Louis also lacks Baltimore's HUGE Irish and Italian populations.
Maryland had more slaves than Missouri for sure, which is proven by it having nearly 3x the black population. Missouri had slaves, but by the time the Civil War happened Missouri was only 40 years old. Maryland had been a colony for nearly 200 years by then.
No Midwestern city can compare to Eastern cities with Irish and Italian ethnic neighborhoods, but St. Louis was traditionally a neighborhood of European ethnic neighborhoods, German obviously being the largest (hint Anheuser Busch). The Irish neighborhood is called "Dogtown" and the Italian neighborhood is called "The Hill", home to Yogi Berra a Yankee great, so to insinuate that St. Louis is not a city of ethnic neighborhoods is intellectually dishonest. There is a strong Irish and Italian presence in St. Louis and has been for over a century. I'm guessing you never seen the film "The Game of Their Lives", it was about the Italian American soccer team from St. Louis that went on to win the World Cup in 1950.
Here is an interesting map to analyze
Blue = German
Light Blue = African
Red = American
Purple = Italian
Green = Irish
Orange = Mexican
Dark Purple = English
Pink = Puerto Rican
Yellow = Japanese
Maryland is NOT a southern state. I dont know why people still say this, if anything Maryland is the end of the Northeast. I dont even consider DC a southern city but the southernmost Northern city. Anyone who has been to Maryland and VA a number of times can tell you there is a huge difference between the two once you leave NOVA. People in Maryland dont even sound Southern anymore.
And if a large black population makes a state southern, how do you explain the large black populations of NY, NJ, MA, & CT. Are they also southern?
You must be one of them deep southerners that refuse to accept the Fact that Maryland is a Southern State........
Maryland is overwhelmingly black in comparison to most other "Northeastern" states. It's demographics are way more similar to other nearby southern states like Virginia and Delaware.
According to the census Maryland is the 4th blackest state in the Union. In fact, the top 10 states with the largest African American populations are all in the census designated South.
According to the census, Maryland is nearly 3x as black as Connecticut, 4x as black as Massachusetts, and 2x as black as New York and New Jersey.
Maryland has been classified by the census as being a Southern state in the "Mid Atlantic region" along with Virginia, Delaware, North Carolina etc.
I mentioned before that I don't consider Baltimore a Southern city, but rather a Border city like St. Louis but in my opinion Maryland, DC, and Virginia a more Southern tradition, history, and culture than Missouri. The larger African American population is just indicative of that.
I will say that Maryland in 2013 is not Maryland in 1913 or 1813, even 1963, but to denounce that Maryland has any Southern affiliation would be just as dishonest as me saying Missouri doesn't have any Southerness.
Nice post. I agree with everything you said. One thing about Maryland's black population is that even today in 2014, it still has a sizeable population of rural blacks in Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore that have been there for over 350 years, which is definitely a Southern trait. I'm not too sure about Missouri... does it have its share of rural blacks, as well?
Nice post. I agree with everything you said. One thing about Maryland's black population is that even today in 2014, it still has a sizeable population of rural blacks in Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore that have been there for over 350 years, which is definitely a Southern trait. I'm not too sure about Missouri... does it have its share of rural blacks, as well?
Yes, In the far Southeastern region called the "bootheel" that is closer to Mississippi than St. Louis. That area is essentially the Northernmost area of the Mississippi Delta region, which was notorious for slavery and cotton picking. Most of the other blacks moved to St. Louis during the two great migrations. St. Louis was less than 10% black and mostly a city of white ethnic neighborhoods until the Great Migrations.
Yes, In the far Southeastern region called the "bootheel" that is closer to Mississippi than St. Louis. That area is essentially the Northernmost area of the Mississippi Delta region, which was notorious for slavery and cotton picking. Most of the other blacks moved to St. Louis during the two great migrations. St. Louis was less than 10% black and mostly a city of white ethnic neighborhoods until the Great Migrations.
There is also a significant black population along the Missouri River due to the same reason, except hemp and tobacco farming was more common than cotton due to the climate.
Maryland had more slaves than Missouri for sure, which is proven by it having nearly 3x the black population. Missouri had slaves, but by the time the Civil War happened Missouri was only 40 years old. Maryland had been a colony for nearly 200 years by then.
No Midwestern city can compare to Eastern cities with Irish and Italian ethnic neighborhoods, but St. Louis was traditionally a neighborhood of European ethnic neighborhoods, German obviously being the largest (hint Anheuser Busch). The Irish neighborhood is called "Dogtown" and the Italian neighborhood is called "The Hill", home to Yogi Berra a Yankee great, so to insinuate that St. Louis is not a city of ethnic neighborhoods is intellectually dishonest. There is a strong Irish and Italian presence in St. Louis and has been for over a century. I'm guessing you never seen the film "The Game of Their Lives", it was about the Italian American soccer team from St. Louis that went on to win the World Cup in 1950.
Here is an interesting map to analyze
Blue = German
Light Blue = African
Red = American
Purple = Italian
Green = Irish
Orange = Mexican
Dark Purple = English
Pink = Puerto Rican
Yellow = Japanese
You just cherrypicked a map. Maryland is mostly German, Italian and Irish.
Yeah, but slavery does not make a place southern. The North had slaves too. And Maryland barely had any slaves at all.
St. Louis also lacks Baltimore's HUGE Irish and Italian populations.
Agreed with the first half, but the bold...
Are you saying St. Louis lacks Irish and Italians??? Care to elaborate where you're going with this/getting this information? St. Louis isn't exactly London but two groups that it isn't lacking in are definitely Irish and Italians... Lazy wiki search puts St. Louis Irish ancestry at 8.73% (Baltimore is at 9.14%), and see above for a mention of the Hill in St. Louis for Italians.
You just cherrypicked a map. Maryland is mostly German, Italian and Irish.
At 30% of the population, African Americans represent the largest ethnic group in Maryland. For the record Maryland has 267,573 Italian Americans (The 12th Largest in US), Missouri has 176,209 (The 19th Largest in US).
The U.S. States with over 100,000 people of Italian ancestry in 2000
Baltimore may be heavily Italian, but if Maryland is 5% Italian it will be doing good. As far as Irish-Americans, Baltimore is only slightly more Irish than St. Louis. In fact, St. Louis has a huge St. Patrick's Day parade every year.
You just cherrypicked a map. Maryland is mostly German, Italian and Irish.
Italian ancestry represents only 4 % in Baltimore and 5 % in Maryland, it's not a big thing. Maryland is mostly German, Irish and English. Even American ancestry (which is a common answer among southerners) is more reported than Italian ancestry with 6 %.
About the thread, I'd say Maryland is more southern than Missouri because its history is more link to the south. Only the southern part of Missouri has a southern influence.
Using a state's reliance on slavery as a gauge to its southern-ness isn't a terrible idea in many cases, actually. In 1860, Maryland was 13% slave (and falling), and Missouri was 10% (and rising). Maryland's manufacturing sector was also somewhat larger, from the civil war to the 1950's when both Maryland and Missouri began losing manufacturing power to the 3rd world and to states that are actually southern. Missouri's foreign-born 'ethnic' population was slightly larger than Maryland's at the time of the civil war, but Maryland's had eclipsed Missouri by the early 1900's. They're both much more ethnic than the south, however.
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