One LAST Move and Things That MATTER (sales, real estate)
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I need some help. I am considering moving my family one last time. I have a wife and 4 boys. We’ve lived in Charlotte and HATED the heat and humidity. We did live there during the swing from “small” southern town to being a “Big City” (between Atlanta and Washington) and loved the atmosphere of progressive growth and “swagger” that came with the perceived change. We are now in Ohio and love the cooler weather but still don’t tolerate the summer humidity. We LOVE the outdoors and love to snow and water ski. We are all running enthusiasts and prefer the outside to the indoors.
My boys are in the health and wellness (medical) fields so it would be necessary to stay near good medical teaching universities for continued education (BSN leading towards nurse practitioner or nurse anesthetist, exercise physiology leading to Physical Therapist, physical therapist assistant, and speech pathologist/American Sign language).
I am tired of being in the “rust belt”. Many, if not most, of the cities in this area have seen their best days and have no answers for revitalization. We are looking for great towns or cities, west of the humidity line, that are progressive in their attitude and approach of building a future for their town/city and their citizens. We want to live in a city that is EXCITED about their prospective future…not cities trying to cling to their “better days” that have now passed (just a little "swagger").
Things that matter in our selection would be #1) not freezing to death (i.e. too far north), #2) not burning up in the summer months (TX is too hot). We want to be outdoors as much as possible. As mentioned earlier #3) good college/university (specifically medical/teaching universities), #4) positive outlook of the city as a whole, #5) love to live in small towns just outside large cities or large cities with great suburbs (need land).
We have researched Albuquerque/Santa Fe, Colorado front range (Ft. Collins, Denver, Aurora, Col. Springs), Boise, Spokane, Seattle, Portland and Reno. I have not carefully considered California due to cost of living, home prices and crowding. I love the idea of Reno due to the university there along with its proximity to great snow skiing, water skiing and ease of travel to Sacramento and SF. [Wouldn’t consider Las Vegas because don’t always want to be wondering where my 4 boys are off to….]
We have visited CO front range and I have plans to fly to San Francisco and drive up to Reno. I am hoping to fall in love with one of these places. My question is this: Can anyone help with any FRIENDLY advice of what may aide in our decision-making process and does anyone know what I am overlooking (i.e. what am I missing)?
Thanks in advance for your (sincere) comments! I’ve enjoyed reading many of your post!!
Not all Rust Belt cities are stuck in the past. In fact, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Columbus and Indianapolis all have a positive outlook for the future and are taking initiatives to revitalize the cities and attract capital and talent. Especially Columbus and Indianapolis, which have booming economies and are growing quite fast. Whether it works out or not remains to be seen. The cities that seem to be in shambles would be Akron, Erie, Cleveland, Detroit, Flint, Gary, Dayton, etc. Those cities pretty much seem to have no hope.
But it sounds like you want to move out west anyway. I'm not familiar with those western cities, however. But it sounds like San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Denver and even Salt Lake City have progressive mentalities in one way or another.
Since cost of living is a factor, I'd second Salt Lake City. It still has four season, but nothing too extreme. Plus, you're close to all sorts of outdoorsy things in mountains. It's a good balance between culture (which is highly lacking in Reno, Spokane, and Albuquerque) and affordability (much more so than Seattle and Portland). I think SLC is cheaper and more beautiful than Denver, but Denver has more entertainment options.
Davis, California could work, too.
As a wildcard, I might also suggest Madison and Milwaukee. Madison is a beautiful city with great educational options and an amazing farmer's market. Milwaukee is on the upswing and getting better everyday. The Eastside is buzzing with great restauants, cafes, markets, and boutiques. Milwaukee is also home to dozens of fantastic summer festivals. Both cities are affordable, clean, and green. Both are close to great camping, biking, beaches, rock climbing, and skiing. Summers can be a little sticky, but nothing like Texas and Carolina. Winters are cold, but being west of the Great Lakes, they tend to be sunnier than the winters in Ohio, Michigan, and Upstate New York.
Given all of the OP's criteria it would seem the Pacific Northwest makes the most sense from a climate and lifestyle perspective. I would recommend the Portland area and would perhaps focus on the town of Beaverton which is linked via light rail to Portland, making it convenient for work and college at Portland State University (Nursing) or Pacific University just to the west in Hillsboro (which has a Physical Therapy program).
Not all Rust Belt cities are stuck in the past. In fact, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Columbus and Indianapolis all have a positive outlook for the future and are taking initiatives to revitalize the cities and attract capital and talent. Especially Columbus and Indianapolis, which have booming economies and are growing quite fast.
I’ve been to Columbus and Pittsburgh. Neither are great outdoor cities. Both winter and summer can be extremes. I should probably add another item to my list: #5) good water and air. I am SO tired of living on rivers where any chemical company can dump anything into the rivers. (See the news from my original hometown, Charleston WV. It is easier to ask forgiveness than permission...it happens TOO MUCH). We get “boil alerts” a day or two AFTER they have dumped something toxic in the water…and we’ve been drinking their spillage for days! (by the way, as it turns out C-8 [teflon] doesn't boil off...shocking) The affected areas run from Pittsburgh all downstream to Cincinnati. Cancer centers are “big business” through these toxic dump sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn.Davenport
As a wildcard, I might also suggest Madison and Milwaukee. Madison is a beautiful city with great educational options and an amazing farmer's market. Milwaukee is on the upswing and getting better everyday. The Eastside is buzzing with great restauants, cafes, markets, and boutiques. Milwaukee is also home to dozens of fantastic summer festivals. Both cities are affordable, clean, and green. Both are close to great camping, biking, beaches, rock climbing, and skiing. Summers can be a little sticky, but nothing like Texas and Carolina. Winters are cold, but being west of the Great Lakes, they tend to be sunnier than the winters in Ohio, Michigan, and Upstate New York.
And finally #6) having a family, health and safety is a concern. This is my issue with Reno…statistically they have higher crime rates than average for the country. It was a surprise to read your comments concerning Milwaukee area. I do love your comment for the outdoor markets and summer festivals…as well as the outdoor activities that surround the lake. I’ve been to Cleveland and fished on Lake Erie. LOVE the lakes…again, that is why Reno is attractive.
I’ve been to Toledo and Detroit. Along with Buffalo and the cities on the East side of the great lakes you never know if you will make it home after being out in the Winter weather. I’ve been caught in some of these storms. The wife and kids went to Denver, Ft Collins, and Colorado Springs last summer. The weather (temp/humidity) was GREAT and “The Vibe” was so different than what we have here. They visited a couple of the Universities in the surrounding area and loved the excitement that came with being around healthy people and great atmosphere. [side note: if I see one more 300+ pound, bleached-blond woman sitting in a motorized cart in the candy isle—cigarette isle—beer isle—I don’t think I can stand it!! And WHERE do they get the LEG TATOOS and WHO is willing to put it on them?]
It’s been a LONG TIME but I flew into Salt Lake City and went up to Ogden and Park City. It was a business trip so I didn’t get out a lot…but I loved the area. It was the summer and weather was great. Don’t know about the “religion thing”. I’ve read a lot of comments that if you are not LDS don’t go. It was a “small issue” when I visited the area. Salt Lake City is not so close to other great cities. The comment of Milwaukee at least has that going for it…in its proximity to a world class city.
We are not big “night life” people. My wife and a couple of the boys are hospital workers and either work late evenings/nights or early mornings. We love to travel to the “big city” to spend and evening (or weekend) but don’t want to live in it…we would like more property and space around us. Again, Reno, with its proximity to CA is a strong attraction.
I am always confused with the whole “Cost of Living” statistic. Here in Ohio a RN is lucky to make $20/hr (base). The housing cost is cheap(ish) if you don’t mind living in a 50 year old home with no property. By the time you consider income tax, sales tax, real estate tax, auto registration (and the like) there isn’t much left of, let’s say, $42k gross.
I often consider the comments of the people from CA that want to leave due to their tax situation and wonder if they consider that less taxation will ultimately be taken into consideration when employers hand out salaries…i.e. if it’s cheap to live they don’t have to compensate for this convenience. I am not in “their shoes” so I don’t know…but could someone from San Diego be happy living in the Ohio Valley just for the low taxes?
This is the “knock” against CO front range…high cost of housing without the benefit of corresponding higher wages (not to mention the unemployment being above national average). So how do you reconcile the lower “cost of living” from the rust belt states (with its corresponding lower economic expectation) to that of LA or SD or SF, with its higher than average “cost of living” but with a much greater since of economic anticipation…as well as the added advantage of the perceived better weather and infrastructure?
I do understand that there is always ‘individual preference’…there are those that will choose NY/NJ every day of the week rather than West Coast. I am just saying I don’t think it is me…and I’m not sure cost of living index is the “end all” of all ratings.
Have you researched Vanderbilt and the surrounding options in TN?
We did consider Eastern TN heavily...before moving to OH. Visited many times and almost pulled the trigger...we had family in WV and OH that made more since to move here as opposed to there. Vanderbilt U is the "real deal".
You can’t change where you were born or where you were raised. The question I ask myself is why do I live where I do? Is it because it is a Great Place or a convenient place. Am I here because I choose to be here or by default? I am at an age the difference between the two is less important. But now I consider my children’s future, and their children after them.
It comes down to “trending” of areas. “Sliding” is easier than “Climbing” and this goes for cities too. What may be tolerable now can drastically change in 5 to 10 years. I am looking for places that have not given up the fight and are working hard to overcome the barriers of being GREAT.
IMO, many of the “rust belt” towns are trying to hold on to what they have (or had). They’ve exhausted their “ammunition” for achieving greatness (ex. Akron). As their populations decrease the only reaction is to raise taxes on those that remain to keep the status quo. Some of the larger towns in this area are gaining at the expense of the smaller towns in its vicinity. This kind of “growth” is NOT sustainable. It is tantamount to a swirling vortex that sucks up everything in its path. When the surrounding areas are depleted they too will diminish. It is NOT Growth but simply Migration…a reshuffling of the current status quo.
I was looking for comments from those that live in communities that are rising…not necessarily out of the ashes (i.e. Detroit—when you are at the bottom you have to ‘rise up’…but can they ever again attain their former Greatness? Probably not in my lifetime)…but I thought there might be places that are EXCITED about who they are and where they are headed.
I read passionate, enthusiastic opinions about CO and CA but they are always mixed with a since of uncertainty…which I am sure is caused by the current national economy. I am wondering if there are places where people are excited about their town’s/city’s future and have CHOSEN to be there, not by default, but by Determined Purpose.
We did consider Eastern TN heavily...before moving to OH. Visited many times and almost pulled the trigger...we had family in WV and OH that made more since to move here as opposed to there. Vanderbilt U is the "real deal".
Then look into Birmingham, AL. UAB/Auburn/..., close to mountains/beach, food/culture, not necessarily cheap. Summers can get a bit warm.
Of course someone will have to throw a race card asap
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