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Old 04-24-2014, 01:17 PM
 
4,059 posts, read 5,586,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
Yes way! It's perhaps one of the only metros of its size with an outer ring Interstate that is only 2 lanes in each direction in many parts, and only recently has that been addressed, albeit slowly.
A lot of your complaint seems to be about maintenance and upkeep, not system design (which is in theory the primary topic of this thread).

From a system perspective, both Cleveland and the TC are fairly well conceived compared to many other metros in the country. That's not to say they couldn't use maintenance, bridge repair, or an extra lane here or there, but as systems they're pretty well designed, and yes, I've lived and commuted in both. Heck, Cleveland doesn't even make the top 50 U.S. cities for bad traffic, though certainly population loss is a part of that equation.

If you're talking about systemic problems, you really need to look at the 'coastal' corridors of I-5 and I-95. In some of the major metros of both you don't even have true beltway systems (like 494/694) because of water and topography, and you get significant overlap of local commuting traffic and through traffic. You can argue Cleveland doesn't have a north beltline, sure, but Cleveland traffic is a joke. There's no current need for one.

Other than Chicago and Austin, the top 15 worst cities are all on those coastal corridors. Take a look at a map of Portland's interstate system sometime. For north-south traffic, there's 205 on the east side, but no bypass on the west at all, and no great way to build one. As a result, the I-5 Interstate bridge is increasingly a parking lot for several hours a day. And I-5 is the only viable north-south route for the region.

And if you're going east-west? Ha ha! Joke's on you. I-84 east of the city and 26 (the sole route west of the city) don't even directly connect. The inefficiencies in the design are almost amusing. Moving through the TC, yes 94/494/694 may have some congestion, but they generally move, and you don't really have to do anything crazy in terms of interchange with repeated merges and exiting slowing the system.

There's no question the I-35 bridge collapse was a tragedy, plus a significant inconvenience for local traffic. But at least there is some redundancy built into the interstate system as a whole there with viable bypass options. In several spots along the I-5 corridor that redundancy just doesn't exist.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,773 posts, read 2,655,999 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
Hypocritical, are we?

Anyways, I didn't want to spend lots of time documenting what I thought I knew, and I generally don't love having to explain myself either, but I wanted to answer the question since I was a bit vague. No harm though, I'm not upset.

When the OP created this thread I wasn't thinking about "lack" of interstates as much as I was thinking about poor systems (like not enough lanes) -- or in St. Louis' or Minneapolis' cases, old systems -- that needed a lot of repairs.

It was the Crumbling of America on the History Channel that I saw the blip about the Interstate in St. Louis where you could see the road below because the bridge/freeway was in such disrepair.

BP + Katrina + Raw Sewage? Welcome To “The Crumbling of America” | Mediaite

That's at least the reference to the subject, but I can't for the life of me find a good image or link to the actual Interstate in question. Perhaps you know what I'm talking about?
I don't really think so. You were making what seemed like to me a pretty big critique, I was just too lazy to check whether the new bridge opened in January or February (opened Feb. 9th if it matters) so I said I think.

No problem though, we just had different interpretations of the thread as I was thinking more design wise. So when you said lack I was basically MODOT still (in part due to how Missouri funds/handles transport/money that has to only go to roads...) seems to agree with this "lack" though as they just built another huge chunk of an "outer-outer belt".

My guess about the hole would be the previously questioned bridge network downtown. Not sure of the date of the documentary, but many years ago I remember a story about some concrete that broke off a bridge downtown. MODOT said it was not a structural concern, but maybe this is where you could see through? 44 ends with a merge with 55 before this though (well it did before Feb. 9th when the new bridge opened), the prime suspect for me would be the double decker 64 along the south side of downtown/connection with the P. St. Bridge, this seems to always be getting worked on (resurfacing, earthquake proofing, you name it) when I go back.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,773 posts, read 2,655,999 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Interstate 95 thought be built straight through Washington DC as it initially was planned. I won't mind if they destroy part of the Northeast ghetto and build it through, with possibly a Big Dig type project to bring the freeway underneath the National Mall so the historical areas are not affected. Interstate 70 should be built into downtown Baltimore, and 83 extended to 95 in Baltimore, as was initially planned. These gaps in the freeway system make it very inconvenient for commuters and thru-traffic.

Now these are not officially Interstates, but in terms of freeways, West Virginia should finish the Coalfields Expressway and Corridor H. There should definitely be an east-west freeway in West Virginia in between Interstate 68 and Interstate 64, somewhere in between Morgantown and Charleston going east into Virginia to connect with Interstate 66.
I really, really do not agree with most of this... You want to run an interstate right through the middle of DC and tunnel under the National Mall? I'm misunderstanding or something right?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Savannah, GA
4,582 posts, read 8,922,186 times
Reputation: 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
I really, really do not agree with most of this... You want to run an interstate right through the middle of DC and tunnel under the National Mall? I'm misunderstanding or something right?
Yeah, I had to re-read that myself.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,618 posts, read 86,585,093 times
Reputation: 36637
They all need to put the emphasis on building new ones, instead of closing the ones they've already got to resurface them. There isn't a ten-mile stretch or urban interstate anywhere in the USA that does not, at this moment, have an orange barrel bottleneck where all traffic comes to a complete standstill, so what is the point of having them at all?
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:30 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,542 posts, read 9,437,854 times
Reputation: 3296
OK City would definitely qualify. The quality of many of our roadways is just downright sorry.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:54 PM
 
2,330 posts, read 4,382,780 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
I really, really do not agree with most of this... You want to run an interstate right through the middle of DC and tunnel under the National Mall? I'm misunderstanding or something right?
I'm guessing you aren't from DC because you should have known that part of the highway is already built up to New York Avenue NE. I-395 3rd Street Tunnel
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:06 PM
 
2,330 posts, read 4,382,780 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
I really, really do not agree with most of this... You want to run an interstate right through the middle of DC and tunnel under the National Mall? I'm misunderstanding or something right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingImport View Post
Yeah, I had to re-read that myself.
WHAT!?!?!?

Don't you folx down there have Big A-- 18 lane Freeway slicing through Downtown and Midtown Atlanta. I-75/85...
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:06 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,686,087 times
Reputation: 7975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
I really, really do not agree with most of this... You want to run an interstate right through the middle of DC and tunnel under the National Mall? I'm misunderstanding or something right?
There already is a highway with a tunnel under the mall

Actually 50 only needs few miles to connect all the way through

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wa...524522d4885d2a
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,780,227 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
So no surface streets huh? Btw, saying that they sprawled anyway is not really a counter to what he said...
Come to Atlanta and try taking winding surface county roads from Acworth to Buford and tell me an interstate grade highway is not needed. And the talk of sprawl and the NIMBYers is what killed the Outer Loop.
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