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"Do not give negative ratings to posts that you simply disagree with or your own reputation will be downgraded. Negative ratings should be reserved for posts that are spammy, off-topic, flames, or don't contribute anything."
The rules go on to say that if you disagree with a post you should say why you disagree.
I would also like to add that it is bad form and frankly, cowardly, to give a negative rating and not have the courage to put your name on it.
All cities have the post ww2 suburbs. I think these suburbs do have cookie cutter houses that were built in the 50s. However, the difference between these Post ww2 white flight suburbs of the 50s to the new cookie cutter suburbs of the 90s-and 2000s, is they were still atleast more like a town. In these suburbs one can still walk to areas, and use a car less. They are also closer to the cities center. The new idea of suburbs don't even have sidewalks, and require a car for everything. Atleast the post WW2 suburbs included sidewalks, parks, public pools, nearby retail, pubs, restaurants, etc.
I'm not so sure about that. There was a burb going up when I was a kid, back in the 50s - 60s, Chippewa Twp, Beaver County, PA. It had no grocery store for at least 10 yrs post development (I remember when the first grocery store opened to much fanfare), meaning people had to drive to downtown Beaver Falls to buy groceries. There were also no services like professional offices, no restaurants, no pool until about 1980, no other retail, no sidewalks, not at all walkable. Obviously no jobs. No public transportation. It is very low density and only a very small percentage of kids walked to school. Most eastern suburbs do not have sidewalks, even now. I think the post WWII burbs are the ones people think of when they talk about "suburbs" with such a negative mindset.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 12-29-2007 at 09:02 PM..
Reason: addition
"Do not give negative ratings to posts that you simply disagree with or your own reputation will be downgraded. Negative ratings should be reserved for posts that are spammy, off-topic, flames, or don't contribute anything."
The rules go on to say that if you disagree with a post you should say why you disagree.
I would also like to add that it is bad form and frankly, cowardly, to give a negative rating and not have the courage to put your name on it.
I agree completely and have said so on this forum. You can report an undeserved negative rep to Yac or markablue. They will evaluate it and remove it if they feel appropriate.
I'm not so sure about that. There was a burb going up when I was a kid, back in the 50s - 60s, Chippewa Twp, Beaver County, PA. It had no grocery store for at least 10 yrs post development (I remember when the first grocery store opened to much fanfare), meaning people had to drive to downtown Beaver Falls to buy groceries. There were also no services like professional offices, no restaurants, no pool until about 1980, no sidewalks, not at all walkable. Obviously no jobs. It is very low density and only a very small percentage of kids walked to school. Most eastern suburbs do not have sidewalks, even now. I think the post WWII burbs are the ones people think of when they talk about "suburbs" with such a negative mindset.
I am refering to suburbin areas in Natrano Heights, Monroeville, Penn Hills. All of these suburbs where built in the 50s. All of these suburbs have sidewalks, retail atleast close by, public parks, etc. The newer suburbs such as Plum, Washington twp, Murrysville, Irwin, and others are newer suburbs. These do not have sidewalks, retail is very far away. These suburbs are more common to have subdivisions. Older WW2 suburbs such as Natrano Heights is largly one large town with sidewalks, and no retail. I didn't think this was so hard to even understand. How can one even argue about this? Seriously.
Frederick, MD is an example. This was once an independent town out in the countryside. But it's main industries left. In the meantime, the suburban ring around DC continued to grow wider and wider. People discovered they could buy inexpensive homes in Frederick and commute to DC. A huge percentage of the people who live in Frederick now commute to jobs in DC--therefore Frederick has become (IMO) a suburb of DC.
Normie - I have to disagree, and rather strongly [but amicably] with your example of Frederick as a suburb of DC. It most decidedly is not.
The largest employer in Frederick is Ft. Detrick, within the city limits. There are numerous other large employers in the city, including firms like Bechtel. Frederick Memorial Hospital is a large employer, and the city itself has a large municiapal workforce. I don't dispute that some residents commute to DC, but it's not that large a percentage. Probably there are more that commute to Montgomery County than DC proper. But you know as well as I do that people around the area commute all over the place. I used to commute from Arlington to Leesburg, but that doesn't make Arlington a suburb of Leesburg.
Frederick is economically strong enough to itself be a magnet to surrounding communities, and is also the seat of Frederick County. Frederick is a city with its own suburbs.
Here are some definitions of suburb:
1) a residential district located on the outskirts of a city - Frederick is not on the outskirts of DC, it is beyond the outskirt. Once you pass Germantown, the drive continues for quite a while though heavily wooded areas and ridges.
2) Suburbs are inhabited districts located either inside a town or city's limits or just outside its official limits (the term varies from country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation. - Again, neither applies to Frederick.
3) residential area within the boundaries of a town or city - Does not apply.
4)An area of housing around the edge of a city. - Frederick is a city, not an area of housing.
5) a town or small city located near and dependent on a larger city - Frederick is not dependent on DC. Neither is DC dependent on Frederick. The whole region is somewhat interdependent, though.
I think better examples of DC suburbs are Rockville, Chantilly, Springfield, Vienna, Arlington, Potomac, etc.
It's ok, no big deal really. I just wanted to say something as a way of nipping it in the bud. There's nothing like a little exposure to put a stop to angry actions.
Meanwhile, if I did offend someone, I would like to apologize. That certainly was not my intention. I was not making fun of El Paso. I genuinely think it's an interesting place. A town without suburbs is intriguing. Another thread mentioned that they have a mountain in the middle of town that serves as a city park. How cool is that! Being right on the border adds cultural diversity. It's a place I would like to know more about. I'm sorry if someone tookm my comments the wrong way.
Normie - I have to disagree, and rather strongly [but amicably] with your example of Frederick as a suburb of DC. It most decidedly is not.
My parents lived in Frederick in the early 70s (I was in college at the time). Even then, many of our neighbors commuted to the DC area, if not right into DC, for work.
Quote:
But you know as well as I do that people around the area commute all over the place.
Commuting from place to place is part and parcel of urban living. If you live within commutin distance of a large city, you are living in a suburb, IMO.
Normie - I have to disagree, and rather strongly [but amicably] with your example of Frederick as a suburb of DC. It most decidedly is not.
The largest employer in Frederick is Ft. Detrick, within the city limits. There are numerous other large employers in the city, including firms like Bechtel. Frederick Memorial Hospital is a large employer, and the city itself has a large municiapal workforce. I don't dispute that some residents commute to DC, but it's not that large a percentage. Probably there are more that commute to Montgomery County than DC proper. But you know as well as I do that people around the area commute all over the place. I used to commute from Arlington to Leesburg, but that doesn't make Arlington a suburb of Leesburg.
Frederick is economically strong enough to itself be a magnet to surrounding communities, and is also the seat of Frederick County. Frederick is a city with its own suburbs.
Here are some definitions of suburb:
1) a residential district located on the outskirts of a city - Frederick is not on the outskirts of DC, it is beyond the outskirt. Once you pass Germantown, the drive continues for quite a while though heavily wooded areas and ridges.
2) Suburbs are inhabited districts located either inside a town or city's limits or just outside its official limits (the term varies from country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation. - Again, neither applies to Frederick.
3) residential area within the boundaries of a town or city - Does not apply.
4)An area of housing around the edge of a city. - Frederick is a city, not an area of housing.
5) a town or small city located near and dependent on a larger city - Frederick is not dependent on DC. Neither is DC dependent on Frederick. The whole region is somewhat interdependent, though.
I think better examples of DC suburbs are Rockville, Chantilly, Springfield, Vienna, Arlington, Potomac, etc.
Whew! Had to get that off my chest.
Hooray!! Suddenly this thread takes off and becomes interesting!
You have made several good points. I still think point #5 applies to Frederick (i.e. I think Frederick has become dependent on DC) however your argument about Ft. Detrick is compelling. So... I think you have won your point (as long as the base remains vibrant).
BTW, I disagree with the point about passing through wilderness areas. But, I don't have anything in particular to back this up except my own opinion. You sound like a person who has done some reading on the subject--have you come across anything about this particular issue?
I believe there are other examples of suburbs that are separated from the core urban area by wilderness areas (especially things like swamps, national forests, etc.) But I can't think of examples offhand. Anyone else out there want to jump in and comment?
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