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My end of Connecticut is rather conservative, as it continues to be toward the "boondocks" of Rhode Island. It depends on the region in both cases. Sure, we end up blue overall because of Hartford and below's population but a good deal of Northern CT is pretty darn conservative.
I'm from CT as well, I'd like to know what part you're in because I have yet to see a "conservative" part of CT. CT is solidly blue.
The PWN is very close to Colorado.. more libertarian, with socially liberal enclaves adjacent to conservative rural communities. I would strongly argue that Colorado has the edge by farrrr in MJ use and acceptance. Colorado has always been at the top in EVERYTHING MJ since the 60's..BC is the stronghold by far in the PNW region. Denver, Boulder, Manitou, Aspen, Breckenridge way over Seattle,Portland ect. towards MJ culture. Colorado is KING COUTURE when it comes to MJ and it ain't even close kids..
As far as the question on this thread? Which is more liberal between the PNW ? I am going to say the NE as an entirety is more liberal than the PNW, but the PNW cities, college regions are much more progressive than anywhere on the East Coast.
Last edited by Scott5280; 09-16-2014 at 03:57 PM..
Marijuana is certainly an interesting factor, but not the litmus in the conservative vs. liberal debate.
Many conservative libertarians want to see marijuana entirely unregulated, while many liberals want to control every aspect of it, up to and including keeping it illegal.
The way I see it is The Northeast (and New England in particular) is a politically progressive, live and let live, takes all kinds, but trending from libertarian roots to modern liberal authoritarianism. As are the 'liberal' pockets of the PNW an northern California.
The only real difference is the 'alternative' hippy dippy culture which many folks in the Pacific region wear on their sleeve. In the Northeast organic farmers and back to the land types tend to look more like their neighbors rather than albino rejects from the mountains of Jamaica.
The only real difference is the 'alternative' hippy dippy culture which many folks in the Pacific region wear on their sleeve. In the Northeast organic farmers and back to the land types tend to look more like their neighbors rather than albino rejects from the mountains of Jamaica.
You were doing just fine until this bit of misinformed stereotyping. That stereotype is in reality such a tiny minority up here. I saw more of those types in your neck of the woods (the Southwest) when I lived down there than I ever do up here. If you must stereotype the PNW, try the urban stereotype of the North Face clad Seattleite or the rural PNW Carhart clad lumberjack types in the mountains. The "hippy-dippy", "albino reject from the mountains of Jamaica" thing belongs in Northern CA much more than it does in OR or WA.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Originally Posted by nep321
I have also heard that some parts of the PNW have some people who are very Christian fundamentalist in-your-face about religion.
Nep, get back to me when you have the ability to tell us what parts of the Northwest where one would find extreme bible belt level Christian fundamentalist communities.
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Originally Posted by nep321
I In all my 28 years of living in New England, I have never once even witnessed this. Ever.
Neither did I in the five years I lived in the Northwest, and I had been all over that region.
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Originally Posted by nep321
.Even New England conservatives are considered too centrist/liberal by American standards. Virtually all counties -- urban or rural -- are solidly blue.
You haven't spent a lot of time getting to know people in parts of New Hampshire and Maine, have you? There are red counties in those states. Not overwhelmingly conservative, leaning more center as you said, but to color all of New England's counties as solidly blue is a big stretch and not true.
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 09-16-2014 at 09:47 PM..
Nep, get back to me when you have the ability to tell us what parts of the Northwest where one would find extreme bible belt level Christian fundamentalist communities.
Neither did I in the five years I lived in the Northwest, and I had been all over that region.
You haven't spent a lot of time getting to know people in parts of New Hampshire and Maine, have you? There are red counties in those states. Not overwhelmingly conservative, leaning more center as you said, but to color all of New England's counties as solidly blue is a big stretch and not true.
Oh please. Only 5 out of New England's 64 counties voted for Romney in 2012. And virtually all of those counties are very lightly populated.
7 of 8 counties in CT voted for Obama in 2012. The only one that didn't is Litchfield County.
I'll say over and over and over again until I'm blue in the face--New Englanders largely vote for Democratic candidates because of historical, although primarily union-related, reasons, not because they're socially progressive in the same respect as voters on the West Coast. You would have no idea what I'm talking about because you've lived in the same small town in Connecticut for nearly your entire life and have never lived on the West Coast. You are less than qualified to make any sort of sweeping generalizations about the Pacific Northwest in particular.
Religion, explicitly Roman Catholicism, is far more pervasive in New England than on the West Coast, especially in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. Half the people who grew up in Southern New England attended Roman Catholic school, myself included, and everyone over a certain age--whether they go to church or not--was raised in the Catholic Church and received all of the sacraments. You're Italian-American and in your 30's like me, and I highly, highly doubt you weren't raised in the Roman Catholic Church.
Furthermore, at least in Rhode Island and Eastern Massachusetts, you can't drive two blocks without seeing a church, either. There are nowhere near as many churches in the Pacific Northwest as there are in New England.
A family member of mine is a former Roman Catholic monsignor, and he told me that, for years and years, Roman Catholic Governors in New England sought the advice and guidance of the Bishops/Cardinals, especially on social issues/stances such as abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, etc. Gov. Don Carcieri of Rhode Island is a very recent example. I've never heard of such a thing on the West Coast. The South? Yes, they're probably counseled by they're whacky Evangelical pastors, but on the West Coast? No way, Jose.
And FWIW, my maternal great-grandfather is an Old Yankee from Voluntown, CT. If you try to tell me that Voluntown is not conservative because New London or Windsor County--or whatever [defunct] county Voluntown is in--voted for Obama in the last presidential election, then you are sadly, sadly mistaken.
I'll say over and over and over again until I'm blue in the face--New Englanders largely vote for Democratic candidates because of historical, although primarily union-related, reasons, not because they're socially progressive in the same respect as voters on the West Coast. You would have no idea what I'm talking about because you've lived in the same small town in Connecticut for nearly your entire life and have never lived on the West Coast.
And that's an important part of liberalism at least as much as social progressism. I don't think that makes those areas less liberal. New England politicians who are liberal icons such as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders don't get attention for social issues. They get it because they're on the left on economic issues. The Pacific Northwest, at least the western part, does have a strong union history as well.
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A family member of mine is a former Roman Catholic monsignor, and he told me that, for years and years, Roman Catholic Governors in New England sought the advice and guidance of the Bishops/Cardinals, especially on social issues/stances such as abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, etc. Gov. Don Carcieri of Rhode Island is a very recent example. I've never heard of such a thing on the West Coast. The South? Yes, they're probably counseled by they're whacky Evangelical pastors, but on the West Coast? No way, Jose.
Sure, the Roman Catholic Church has some influence. But New England isn't a bastion of anti-abortion sentiment. Nor has it prevented same-sex marriage except for until recently Rhode Island.
I'll say over and over and over again until I'm blue in the face--New Englanders largely vote for Democratic candidates because of historical, although primarily union-related, reasons, not because they're socially progressive in the same respect as voters on the West Coast. You would have no idea what I'm talking about because you've lived in the same small town in Connecticut for nearly your entire life and have never lived on the West Coast. You are less than qualified to make any sort of sweeping generalizations about the Pacific Northwest in particular.
Religion, explicitly Roman Catholicism, is far more pervasive in New England than on the West Coast, especially in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. Half the people who grew up in Southern New England attended Roman Catholic school, myself included, and everyone over a certain age--whether they go to church or not--was raised in the Catholic Church and received all of the sacraments. You're Italian-American and in your 30's like me, and I highly, highly doubt you weren't raised in the Roman Catholic Church.
Furthermore, at least in Rhode Island and Eastern Massachusetts, you can't drive two blocks without seeing a church, either. There are nowhere near as many churches in the Pacific Northwest as there are in New England.
A family member of mine is a former Roman Catholic monsignor, and he told me that, for years and years, Roman Catholic Governors in New England sought the advice and guidance of the Bishops/Cardinals, especially on social issues/stances such as abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, etc. Gov. Don Carcieri of Rhode Island is a very recent example. I've never heard of such a thing on the West Coast. The South? Yes, they're probably counseled by they're whacky Evangelical pastors, but on the West Coast? No way, Jose.
And FWIW, my maternal great-grandfather is an Old Yankee from Voluntown, CT. If you try to tell me that Voluntown is not conservative because New London or Windsor County--or whatever [defunct] county Voluntown is in--voted for Obama in the last presidential election, then you are sadly, sadly mistaken.
I have not lived in the same small town in CT my entire life. Wtf? I've lived in a variety of cities and towns throughout the state, as well as NYC. And I've traveled to 42 states.
Most people I know in New England are liberal with SOCIAL issues, so I don't know what you're talking about. I have known many women who simply vote Democrat because they're pro-choice, here in New England. And many gays who simply vote Democrat because they're pro-marriage equality. And minorities who vote Democrat because of issues like immigration, etc. There's only a handful of social issues anyway. And union and labor issues are very much "liberal" issues as well.
Furthermore, of course there are going to be more churches in New England. The region was settled and industrialized far earlier than anywhere out West. But the key is that most people don't attend church here in New England. It's the best place in the U.S. to be an atheist, and this updated map explains it all: Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You like to point out that the mentality on the west coast is more "progressive," but I think it's just an illusion/stigma. One reason is because of the simple fact that it's the "new frontier" and doesn't have nearly as much old construction. But if you look past that, then really, what is the difference? People still eat, sleep, work, raise families and have fun. Yet the west coast always lags behind the northeast in terms of embracing and enforcing new policies of progressivism and socialism. Orange County, CA is a very populated area, yet it leans conservative. There's nothing like that in New England. And San Diego County is barely liberal. Heck, not too long ago, Californians voted against gay marriage. Wtf?
So, I still don't see how the west coast is inherently more liberal, because the facts show otherwise. At the end of the day, public policy is the best reflection of the mentality of the majority of the people, for any given geography.
Which parts of Oregon did you visit? How many people do you know in Oregon? I know Oregon families who not only have lived in Oregon for many generations but some who can trace their families back to coming over from back East on the Oregon Trail.
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While you will find the larger Oregon cities filled with more transplants, the more rural areas are where more of the native born Oregonians will be. All together they form a more traditional and provincial majority. Now having said that, friends I know who live in these areas do tell me this is slowly changing as more people from other parts of the country manage to settle into the smaller Oregon towns. It's a hard life in many of these places so any of these changes will take place slowly but they will probably come.
Only there for a few weeks. Though enough to get an impression of the place. I met some people in rural areas, many were transplants from other parts of the country, which wouldn't that common in New England. I heard of bunch of Great Lakes / upstate NY accents and thought "oh, maybe the local accents are similar to upstate NY". Of course, it was because they were transplants from upstate NY. I'm not saying they're aren't any natives, but many maybe most aren't natives.
Even including California and Washington, almost half of Oregon residents were born outside the West Coast:
Bunch of transplants from neighboring New York, but otherwise excluding immigrants, not many were born out of state. Other New England states have more born out of state residents, but they're mostly from other New England states or New York. It's a very different dynamic out in Oregon, that's very obvious.
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I don't think of Oregon as more progressive than most other states although some of its major cities are more liberal than others within that state.
Oregon voted against same sex marriage and even changed its constitution to ban it when more liberal Portland allowed it for a short period of time in 2004. It's up again in November's election and is being supported by the many transplants from the East and California but polls have shown that the natives are now saying that they might change their minds because it's the way the tide is turning and voting against it might be hurting tourism in the areas that depend upon it.
You can find lots of the "good old boy stuff" in New England, too. Same sex marriage probably would have lost in the early 2000s in New England, too but it was legalized by the courts and referendums are harder to pass here. Oregon also stands out in polls by how Democratic-leaning its white electorate is. Other states may be more blue, but it's partly from having large numbers of non-whites who tend to vote heavily Democratic. Among white voters, the New England - Pacific Northwest difference is small, despite the Pacific Northwest having a very conservative section east of the Cascades while New England doesn't.
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