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Well, the ones I ran into definitely weren't transplanted Brooklynites playing "cowboy". These were mainly desert-rat types. My guess is native, or at least from the desert Southwest somewhere, but I can't be sure, since I never really got chummy with these types enough to have a conversation with them and ask them where they grew up.
I mainly lived in Phoenix during the 90's, and in the very early oughts. I lived mostly in central Phoenix - Camelback and 12th St. being the nearest main crossroads, and then a few months on the West side in the Metrocenter area (35th Ave. and Dunlap), which is where I most commonly (and frequently) encountered these types. Knuckledraggers would definitely be the proper adjective. Sure, these types are everywhere, but I never had to deal with so many of them concentrated in one city as much as I did in Phoenix.
And that's just Phoenix. Some of the small towns in AZ were far scarier. I almost got lynched by a bunch of bloodthirsty cowboys in Ajo, simply because I had green hair. That was in 1992. Kind of late in the game to be harassed for being a punk rocker. I'm 50 years old and got into punk in 1979 when it was still a new thing, and having short, spiky hair dyed unnatural colors was still considered "freakish", yet I very rarely got hassled for it in Houston even way back then. I ran into the same kind of intolerance in places like Quartzite, Payson, Kingman, and Winslow.
Again, I'm not trying to paint the whole state as some kind of bastion of redneck intolerance, but I ran into these kind of people far more frequently in AZ than I have anywhere else I've lived. And I've lived in 8 different states. One thing I noticed about AZ is that people seem to be either one way or the other there. Either the scary, belligerent, intolerant rednecks that I described, or quite liberal, laid-back, and open-minded. I found Tucson to be a pretty liberal and somewhat hip little city, and Flagstaff was like a little chunk of Boulder, CO placed in AZ... a very hippie-friendly little college town. And then there was the whole new-agey thing in Sedona.
I know those Phoenix areas well. Those areas have changed a lot since you lived there but still I wouldn't associate those areas with cowboys or rednecks at all. Of course you experienced what you experienced but I know those areas too and those types of people wouldn't cross my mind when I think of those areas. 35th Ave. and Dunlap is somewhat dicey. I can see encountering a few tweekers and desert rat types as you say possibly but I think that area is mostly Latino now. As far as 12th St. and Camelback it seems odd that you would run into any of those types there even then. That area is close to some seedy areas but it is also close to Town and Country and the Biltmore area. It is also close to some gay neighborhoods and it is close to some hipster areas that weren't there when you lived there but I wouldn't associate that area around Camelback with those types of people at all. How can you be sure that those desert rat types weren't originally from California or the Midwest? Why do you assume they were natives? I guess I qualify as a native and not I or anyone I grew up with associated with anything having to do with redneck or cowboy culture. It was completely foreign. I would say our culture was mix of westcoast/Midwest/east/ and intermountain west and Mormons.
As far as 12th St. and Camelback it seems odd that you would run into any of those types there even then. That area is close to some seedy areas but it is also close to Town and Country and the Biltmore area. It is also close to some gay neighborhoods and it is close to some hipster areas that weren't there when you lived there but I wouldn't associate that area around Camelback with those types of people at all. How can you be sure that those desert rat types weren't originally from California or the Midwest? Why do you assume they were natives?
No, I really didn't encounter those types at all in central Phx. I just lived in that area for a long time. However, my job took me all over the Valley and aside from the West side, I ran into them quite a bit in North Phoenix, and in certain East Valley suburbs like Mesa. Even in the areas of Tempe South of the Superstition freeway. Central Phoenix in the 90's wasn't too bad. A bit boring, but much more civilised than the other areas I mentioned. There was even a tiny little scene going on downtown around that time with local artists and musicians, many of whom were my circle of friends. Most of them lived in the older Central Phoenix neighborhoods like Encanto, Willo, and Coronado.
And like I said earlier regarding the "desert rat" thing, it was just a guess. Once again, these obviously weren't the kind of people I was friends with. I just guessed "native" because they seemed to be pretty localized and abundant in that part of town. Very much townies, you know? Didn't really strike me as recent transplants from some other region of the country. Maybe that part of town has drastically changed since I last lived down there in '02, but I can't imagine it's changed that much in 12 years. I only lived out there at the time because I had moved in with an ex who owned a house there. It got even worse the further West you went. Glendale was downright scary in the 90's. And I'm talking about the white people. Peoria? Even worse than Glendale.
Mostly Arlington. Went there for an ASU-Notre Dame game last year. Great time and great stadium. Ran into some locals. Some very nice people. Just seemed very culturally different. Didn't remind me of anyplace in Arizona. Maybe unfair to label them redneck. Just some of the accents and general vibe felt that way. Maybe it's unfair. Not right in Dallas and small sample size but I ran into people that might fall into the stereotypical redneck category that I don't encounter in Phoenix.
I would offer the following:
1) Its never good to judge a place based off of special events.
2) Arlington is closer to Fort Worth, so the odds that you may have seen a few people who are more country is there. I dont use the term redneck because that term only applies to people who work the land. We dont have many if any of those in an urban area. You might see people who have an accent or like their guns, but that in itself doesnt make someone a redneck.
3) Im not a huge fan of Arlington, but its a pretty good mix of people. There are a lot of Hispanics and Middle/Upper Class African Americans there. In addition to that Arlington is the second largest Vietnamese community in the South after Houston. The diversity aside, its a pretty bland place.
If youre going to judge us, I would suggest spending more time in the area before you render a verdict. Youre making a lot of assuptions about how "redneck" a place is when you dont really know them.
Yes, I am very much honestly telling you that. It's not even a matter of "trying". It is what it is. Sorry if you don't like it. Of course Scottsdale is different in this aspect, but Scottsdale is just one pocket of the Valley.
Now, are YOU honestly going to try to tell me that West Phoenix, Glendale, and Peoria aren't redneck? "Please" back at you.
What I've been smoking, is the actual experience of having lived in all 3 states. Can you say the same? Have you ever lived in Texas? I grew up in inner loop Houston, not some backwater panhandle town. I know very well that there are tons of rednecks in Texas, just as there are in almost every state in America, but not so much where I grew up. Scottsdale aside, I found the Valley to be a good deal more redneck than Houston, and several other Texas cities, so spare me the stereotypes.
I'm calling BS on this too. There is no way that country music is more popular in AZ than it is in TX and I've lived in both places on more than one occasion and in different cities in both states.
I'm calling BS on this too. There is no way that country music is more popular in AZ than it is in TX and I've lived in both places on more than one occasion and in different cities in both states.
I don't think he is that far off.
Phoenix is more redneck than Houston city limits. Possibly Dallas city limits. Put another way, Houston and Dallas city limits are more sophisticated than Phoenix.
There is a sharp divide between the city limits & suburbs of Texas cities. The Texas suburbs get increasingly more redneck every inch out from the city limits. The difference is more than between areas in Phoenix metro and also far more than the divide in Southern CA cities & their suburbs.
Im going to challenge this. Before I start (this time) I actually agreed with a lot of what you wrote, so theres that.
Arizona may be more welcoming to other people from the US. Its such a transient place that is possible. However, Arizona is not more welcoming to people from outside the US than Texas is.
First off, Texas is far (emphasis on far) more diverse, international, and multicultural than Arizona is. Even in Phoenix, the only three groups of people that stand out are: 1) white people from cold environments (Midwest and Northeast), 2) white people from California, 3) Hispanics from California and Sonoroa. Number three pales next to the other two.
I just spent a week there in the last couple of months (and no it was not my first trip) and the reaction Phoenix nor Arizona is diverse at all on an ethnic or racial level. Not only is that the impression people get, but its statistically factual as well.
Lest we also forget about SB 1070 which Texas declined to follow. Not exactly what I would call welcoming to people of a different culture.
Please. I think you left a few parts out. As has been said a hundred times before on CD, the governors of CA, AZ (Janet Napolitano at the time), NM, and TX were ALL sending letters to Washington demanding that they pay the bill that tax-payers of these states have had to foot when it came to border security. Jan Brewer just continued what Janet Napoliano started before she drank the DC kool-aid after being appointed her position as Secretary of Homeland Security. Thus, SB-1070 came into existance which had absolutely nothing to do with welcoming people from a different culture as Arizonans have been welcoming legal and illegal immigrants for decades. Although the other governors discontinued their quest at the time, we now find Perry in TX has ramped up his border control again.
Its not just not like Houston. Dallas and Austin are not like Arizona in terms of demographics either.
Austin certainly is, racially anyway.
Dallas has a little more international flair and more African-Americans, but Phoenix is overall demographically more similar to Dallas (heavily white & Hispanic) than the CA cities (which are more racially balanced).
Well, the ones I ran into definitely weren't transplanted Brooklynites playing "cowboy". These were mainly desert-rat types. My guess is native, or at least from the desert Southwest somewhere, but I can't be sure, since I never really got chummy with these types enough to have a conversation with them and ask them where they grew up.
I mainly lived in Phoenix during the 90's, and in the very early oughts. I lived mostly in central Phoenix - Camelback and 12th St. being the nearest main crossroads, and then a few months on the West side in the Metrocenter area (35th Ave. and Dunlap), which is where I most commonly (and frequently) encountered these types. Knuckledraggers would definitely be the proper adjective. Sure, these types are everywhere, but I never had to deal with so many of them concentrated in one city as much as I did in Phoenix.
And that's just Phoenix. Some of the small towns in AZ were far scarier. I almost got lynched by a bunch of bloodthirsty cowboys in Ajo, simply because I had green hair. That was in 1992. Kind of late in the game to be harassed for being a punk rocker. I'm 50 years old and got into punk in 1979 when it was still a new thing, and having short, spiky hair dyed unnatural colors was still considered "freakish", yet I very rarely got hassled for it in Houston even way back then. I ran into the same kind of intolerance in places like Quartzite, Payson, Kingman, and Winslow.
Again, I'm not trying to paint the whole state as some kind of bastion of redneck intolerance, but I ran into these kind of people far more frequently in AZ than I have anywhere else I've lived. And I've lived in 8 different states. One thing I noticed about AZ is that people seem to be either one way or the other there. Either the scary, belligerent, intolerant rednecks that I described, or quite liberal, laid-back, and open-minded. I found Tucson to be a pretty liberal and somewhat hip little city, and Flagstaff was like a little chunk of Boulder, CO placed in AZ... a very hippie-friendly little college town. And then there was the whole new-agey thing in Sedona.
The area (zip code) that you speak of (Dunlap/35th Ave) near Metrocenter is almost split between whites and Hispanics, so I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to convey. The population in the zip code is roughly 37644 with whites making up 23,622 and Hispanics making up 18,239 (median age is 31).
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