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People visit on vacation and go on and on about how pretty it is and how relaxing it is. Then they move there and realize people don't go to national parks every weekend and they aren't hiking, camping, and fishing all the live long day.
We go to a national or state park at least one day of every weekend in the summer and at least once or twice a month in the winter. You do it when it’s accessible and nice, and when your job and house are relatively close.
I think people just romanticize living next to mountains; they think they'll go hiking, skiing, and boating all the time, and usually they don't end up having time to do it or just lose interest. Then other factors like the high COL, large homeless populations, and wildfires make them reconsider their decision. Lots of threads on C-D from people in the West looking to relocate to the South.
Maybe there's a perception that rural poverty is much less of a thing out west, just because it's less visible due to the greater distance between populated areas? It's definitely a thing, just go to any Indian reservation, or towns like Onyx, CA or Loma, MT that are far from both major highways and national parks/national forests and so can't benefit from those things. Or even towns along Washington's coast (e.g. Aberdeen) that historically relied on timber production --- which became unprofitable through environmental regulations and because Southern forests grow faster and can be harvested more easily from their flat terrain --- and haven't yet found a niche to revitalize themselves.
It's amazing how much people romanticize the region. I have people here ask why I left and I tell them the pay in Montana is low and the cost of living is high. Then they say they could deal with that for mountains. Sure thing buddy. And when you're working two jobs to make ends meet I hope you enjoy looking at the pretty mountains on the way to work because that's how you will enjoy them.
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Originally Posted by Phil P
Spot on. COVID has definitely amplified this, anything outdoors has been sold out for a year + now. Outdoor rec is great, but it's only one part of the equation of where you live. People think they have more Saturdays to dedicate all day activities than they actually do and underestimate how important the local park and 10 minute driving radius natural offerings are.
The entire western US is going through a rough spot these last couple years. Echoing what 509 said, it seems like most big cities in the west are deteriorating in QOL while places in the east are improving. Smaller towns out west are improving, but they are still pricey and distances between towns are much larger.
There's so many little things, the increased wildfire smog, teacher shortages, housing shortages, increasingly overused close trailheads, homelessness... that make daily life more of a PITA out west. The political culture is more toxic, both on the right and the left in the western US than it is in the east.
The drought won't be permanent, but the QOL impact on life is profound right now. Things will shift and the tables will change eventually, but I feel like right now, it's a sweeter deal to live in the east and vacation out west, grabbing the scenery at it's prime. Get your weeklong mountain trip in then go back to a more comfy home in a nicer neighborhood with more sociable neighbors instead of 2nd home neighbors.
Well stated.
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Originally Posted by 509
As a professional forester I have lived, worked and traveled throughout the west for the past 50 years. From the smallest towns to the largest cities.
YES, the ENTIRE west has been trashed and going downhill at a rapid clip. Particularly, in the last 15 years.
Las Vegas was a wonderful city in the 1970's. Outside of the strip, it was a great town to live. Well, we all know that it is unliveable today. Likewise, Portland which was one of the nicest urban areas in the world. I went there on business trips for 30 years. Today, well everybody knows about downtown Portland today and their nightly fire bombings and riots downtown. This is the west??
Idaho, Nevada, Arizona, Montana have all gone significantly downhill. Really bad in southern Nevada and Arizona.
I lived in Idaho for years. Outside the public lands, it is crowded. And of course on weekends all the weekend outdoorsman show up on the now overcrowded public lands!!! When I lived in Idaho if there was a car parked at a trailhead, you drove to another trailhead to avoid crowding. Nowadays, those trailheads have 200 cars parked in them.
There are small pockets left of the west, very small. I would head for Wyoming. More remnants there than anywhere else.
Never spent much time in New Mexico.
If you can stand the humidity and lack of mountains I think the future in rural areas is probably better back east than out west. That wasn't true for the past 150 years.
This is accurate although I never recommend anyone move to Wyoming if they can help it. The locals are too unfriendly.
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Originally Posted by Hemlock140
I actually spent a night at a motel in Rock Springs years ago in the fall, and remember it well, the only place I have ever been with hot water in the toilets.
How did you know it was hot? Was it steaming?
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Originally Posted by Guineas
We go to a national or state park at least one day of every weekend in the summer and at least once or twice a month in the winter. You do it when it’s accessible and nice, and when your job and house are relatively close.
This works for you but if you're working multiple jobs to make ends meet this isn't happening. And as you said, it's only in the summer. During the winter how often are you doing it?
New Orleans gets nailed by a category 4 hurricane 16 years to the day after Katrina hit. The remnants of that storm are now pummelling NYC and Northern New Jersey with epic flooding. There's water inside Newark airport, all New York City subways are shutdown, and 9 million people are under a flash flood emergency, but other than that the Eastern US is amazeballs. What're the odds there's a nor'easter this winter?
If there was a way to cheaply transport all that excess water from the east (where it is too much of a good thing) to the west (where the lack of it is devastating.)
As someone from the west here are our stereotypes of non-western regions:
East Coast: Terrible weather, angry people (note stereotype not necessarily true). High humidity in places like DC and nor'easters in New England.
Midwest: Rust Belt...boring...tornadoes/bad winters/floods, declining population...humidity sucks.
South: I think we all know the stereotypes plus hurricanes, tornadoes, damanging t-storms, low education funding etc.
Texas: Same as the South plus very hot weather and huge hailstorms.
Plains: Very bad winters, damaging ice storms, lots of tornadoes, and not many job opportunities.
From a Western perspective
Any place without hurricanes or tornadoes is automatically ranked higher as a lot of westerners have a fear or concern about those (simply because we don't have them while we prepare for wildfires and those near the coasts know how to live with earthquakes or tsunamis).
CA: Best weather, can enjoy all four seasons within a short distance.
PNW: Mild winters but if you like rain or snow you get more of a balance. I think the PNW is better than CA because it is still a mild climate but has more variety.
Southwest: It does get hot but the winters are wonderful and there are lots of winter activities in places like Utah or New Mexico. Places like Arizona are popular with snowbirds for the low humidity and dry winter weather. You do get intense t-storms during the monsoon but those rarely cause major damage.
Inter Mountain West: The front range has even more variety than any other region but tornadoes are relatively uncommon except in the eastern portions of those states. Lots of skiing and beautiful mountains for those who live for the outdoors. Fishing and hunting are excellent. Humidity is still very low.
The no. 1 issue with the west is over it having enough water under current and future drought conditions to supply the millions of Americans who are looking forward to moving there in coming years? If it's just a myth that there is any need to be worried about it, then that would be real nice!
The further away you are from the east coast the better the job market, I'm starting to find out. And no I'm not talking about tech bro garbage that is oversaturated and outsourced. More like blue collar or a blue/white collar hybrid. The DC-Boston corridor has been getting too wild with their weather for my liking.
But the droughts, insane COL, overpopulation, limited housing out west--renting or buying, no thanks. I'm already in NW Minnesota. The furthest west of the Mississippi I'd wanna relocate to would be in the Dakotas(the bigger cities).
I think you mean the Midwest has the best job market. The Western US may not have a great job market, because everyone wants to live there due to weather, scenery, and lifestyle. NJ did not have many jobs available unless it was in NYC. I graduated in 2020 during the covid economy and still cannot find a job out here in the Bay Area, remote jobs in all of the US are saturated, while college grads that stayed back out East are already getting full time jobs. West Coast has the worst job market. You are competing to live in these supposedly "desirable" areas where the quality of life is said to be perfect, when the West actually has a terrible quality of life, hot weather all the time, ghetto, droughts, wildfires, etc.
PNW: Mild winters but if you like rain or snow you get more of a balance. I think the PNW is better than CA because it is still a mild climate but has more variety.
I agree you have seasons in the PNW, and the snow easily melts in a day or two after it falls. Fall colors lasts for several months and spring flowers bloom early. For me, the monotony of LA weather gets tiring after a bit and I crave some rain.
I think you mean the Midwest has the best job market. The Western US may not have a great job market, because everyone wants to live there due to weather, scenery, and lifestyle. NJ did not have many jobs available unless it was in NYC. I graduated in 2020 during the covid economy and still cannot find a job out here in the Bay Area, remote jobs in all of the US are saturated, while college grads that stayed back out East are already getting full time jobs. West Coast has the worst job market. You are competing to live in these supposedly "desirable" areas where the quality of life is said to be perfect, when the West actually has a terrible quality of life, hot weather all the time, ghetto, droughts, wildfires, etc.
Thing is, not everyone will rate the same region similarly since everyone has different preferences. I can see plenty of people who won't have a great quality of life in the West but it's so far my favorite after spending years there compared to the Midwest and the South. (OK, I might need to live a few years in the east coast to have a more complete judgment.) I also work in tech which has better opportunities out West.
But I guess the more the # of people who like it out east, the better it is for me since there will be less competing for the limited resources in my favorite region.
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