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Old 10-23-2014, 06:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I guess because they say pop instead of soda.

There's no such thing as a Northeastern dialect. Nor is there such a thing as Northeastern culture for that matter.

The only other reason to call Pittsburgh or Buffalo the Midwest is because they go against the definition of "Northeast" some people on here are trying to create. And that makes no sense because those cities are every bit as Northeastern as Boston or New York. In what bizzaro reality could Baltimore, a city that has parks and monuments dedicated to the Confederacy, be "Northeastern" but not Buffalo or Pittsburgh?
I'm a Buffalonian and I don't consider us "midwest", not that there is anything wrong with that. It's just something I see here at City-Data. I really don't see why a city has to be on the coast essentially of the Northeast to be considered Northeastern? I have been to Cleveland and Pittsburgh and definitely see the similarities between the three cities for sure, but then again when I think midwest I tend to think Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska etc States like Michigan and Ohio are a little different in my eyes, having been to both and New England, I don't see a huge gaping difference in "midwest" states that are on the cusp of the northeast.

As for Buffalo, I kind of feel like we have Midwest, Canadian and Northeast characteristics. A hodge podge but not one distinct feeling, aside from accents and saying "pop". A lot of people on C-D also refer to WNY as "flat", but I am just going to share a link of a town here about an hour away, in WNY that is not by any means flat.

https://www.google.com/search?q=elli..._AUoAg&dpr=0.9
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,360 posts, read 16,866,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
There's no such thing as a Northeastern dialect. Nor is there such a thing as Northeastern culture for that matter.
As I've said in the past, as tortured logic is needed to come up with commonalities for the Northeast, there are really no cultural commonalities across the Midwest. There's not only no cultural difference between the two regions, but in terms of many forms of culture (e.g., accent, building styles, political attitudes, etc), New England/Upstate NY share more with the Upper Midwest, and the Mid-Atlantic shares more with the Lower Midwest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Yeah Pittsburgh is not Midwestern by any stretch of the imagination. In fact my dad, born in Gary, Indiana to a Pittsburgh native (my paternal grandfather) would make it a point to NOT sound like his funny talking parents because people always pointed out how weird they sounded. The Chicago accent is a universe away from the Pittsburgh accent.
Again, there is a big cultural divide in the Midwest between the Great Lakes cities and the River cities. Pittsburgh shares nothing in common with the Great Lakes cities of the Midwest (not even nearby Cleveland). Pittsburgh has rowhouses - Cleveland doesn't. Pittsburgh has a Midland accent with slight southern influence. Cleveland is pure north with the Northern Cities Vowel Shift in full force.

The Midwestern city most similar to Pittsburgh is Cincinnati, and after that probably Saint Louis. But Pittsburgh overall is more similar to Philly or Baltimore than it is to anywhere in the Midwest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Where do you live in Pittsburgh? I spend time in Squirrel Hill visiting my funny talking grandmother from time to time. I go to her hahs and eat chipped ham and drink a bir while watching da Stillers game. Her husband (my late grandfather) used to be an "arn worker" in Pittsburgh before he and her moved to Gary, Indiana to do the same job at US Still (Steel). In fact, there is a Steelers Bar in Northwest Indiana that was opened by Pittsburgh natives who relocated there as well.
I live in Lawrenceville - have for seven years. Before that I lived in Friendship and Bloomfield. Moving to Morningside shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I think the bolded are probably the most unique to the Northeast....in the sense that you really won't find many of those things outside of the region. I think eschaton noted in a different thread that the Northeast is the only region where almost all government services are concentrated at the township level. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
The Northeast is noted for having weak county government (absent entirely in CT and RI). You can't say strong townships given that term is only used in PA and NJ.

Of course, this definition excludes DE and MD. But then again, they're not truly Northeastern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
White ethnics are present in large numbers in the Midwest, but not nearly to the same extent as in the Northeast. The cities with the highest percentages of ethnic whites (Catholics and Jews) are all located in the Northeastern U.S. Even the so-called "Midwestern" cities of the Northeast have a stronger White ethnic character than Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, etc. The only city outside of the Northeast where White Catholics and Jews make up more than 50% of the non-Hispanic White population is Miami. There are no metros outside of the Northeast where they make up more than 30% of the metro.
For Pittsburgh, keep in mind that the city attracted a lot of lesser known "white ethnic" groups from Eastern Europe. I know plenty of people who are part Hungarian, Slovak, Czech, Lithuanian, Slovenian, etc. These are undoubtedly "white ethnics," but since they aren't demographically important anywhere else in the Northeast or Midwest (except small enclaves) I can see why they didn't end up in your calculation.
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,360 posts, read 16,866,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Back to the OP, I actually do think there there is a uniform "feel" or at least characteristics of the Northeast, and, snarky comments about Pittsburgh/Buffalo being in the Midwest aside, there are definitely characteristics that span across the entirety of the Northeast:
A better list, but still problematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Strong local government (at the town/township level)
Overall yes, but again, only if MD and DE are excluded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Low rates of Evangelical Christianity
True everywhere but the South, as others noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Strong ethnic white identity/heritage
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Distinct seasons
Yes, but also true for the Midwest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Lush and generally hilly/mountainous topography
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Distinct/dense town centers
Yes, although this is more a factor of age than anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- More presence of public transportation/trains
Yes. I think Buffalo is the only sizable city in the Northeast without what one would consider a halfway decent transit system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- More Democratic in terms of politics (and yes, this includes the relatively more conservative states of the region, including Pennsylvania and New Hampshire)
Overall true, but this masks regional differences. For example, if you look at only white voters, only New England and New York are actually Democratic - the states further south are Republican (possibly not Maryland these days due to the concentration of federal workers in Montgomery county). So the states vote Democratic for different reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Stronger unionized culture
Not universal. Northern New England and MD/DE are not very highly unionized.

http://mattstil.es/images/states-unions.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- Ivy League/high concentration of liberal arts colleges
True, but the Ivies are a pretty narrow range of schools (and all of which but Cornell were founded very early, which is why they're in the Northeast), and the high concentration of schools (beyond population density) is more a Boston thing than anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
- High-performing/well-funded public schools
Overall true, but again, plenty of parts of the Upper Midwest value public education and high school funding as well.
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: USA
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wiseguys and hustlers
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:21 AM
 
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Honestly the first place that you get the the defacto quintessential "northeastern feel" (as in coastal northeast) is in South Philly. That is where you can first start to find people like this


Yo Cuz! The Italian-American Cook Season One Bloopers - YouTube


Cookin wit Cousin Vinnie, Clams & Linguine. iannellisbakery.com - YouTube


BLACK THOUGHT: BLOWHIPHOPTV.COM - YouTube
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
A better list, but still problematic.



Overall yes, but again, only if MD and DE are excluded.

Mainly a county system just like most states. But I always thought New York had townships as well? I know some of the Upper Midwestern states have them.

True everywhere but the South, as others noted.



Yes.



Yes, but also true for the Midwest.



Yes.



Yes, although this is more a factor of age than anything.



Yes. I think Buffalo is the only sizable city in the Northeast without what one would consider a halfway decent transit system.



Overall true, but this masks regional differences. For example, if you look at only white voters, only New England and New York are actually Democratic - the states further south are Republican (possibly not Maryland these days due to the concentration of federal workers in Montgomery county). So the states vote Democratic for different reasons.

Federal workers, blue collar workers, small business workers, workers in miscellaneous fields, etc. here in PG County, Howard County, Baltimore City and County, Anne Arundel County (though it's more evenly mixed politically), and Charles County (somewhat), not just MoCo. These counties combined is where the majority of the state's population is most heavily concentrated
.

Not universal. Northern New England and MD/DE are not very highly unionized.

http://mattstil.es/images/states-unions.png



True, but the Ivies are a pretty narrow range of schools (and all of which but Cornell were founded very early, which is why they're in the Northeast), and the high concentration of schools (beyond population density) is more a Boston thing than anything.



Overall true, but again, plenty of parts of the Upper Midwest value public education and high school funding as well.
Answers in bold.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,360 posts, read 16,866,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcave360 View Post
But I always thought New York had townships as well? I know some of the Upper Midwestern states have them.
New York doesn't have townships. Like New England, it has towns. That said, my experience is the meaning of towns tends to vary dramatically from area to area. In most of Upstate New York, they are relatively small and mostly function like New England towns as the fundamental structure of government. Closer to New York, particularly in Long Island, they can be quite large. Nassau county only has three towns, one of which has 760,000 people. There county government is more important, as are the incorporated villages to local identity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcave360 View Post
Federal workers, blue collar workers, small business workers, workers in miscellaneous fields, etc. here in PG County, Howard County, Baltimore City and County, Anne Arundel County (though it's more evenly mixed politically), and Charles County (somewhat), not just MoCo. These counties combined is where the majority of the state's population is most heavily concentrated.
Here are some estimates made back in 2012 of Obama's share of the white vote by state in the Northeast:

Vermont: 66.4%
Rhode Island: 58.9%
Massachusetts: 55.9%
Maine: 54.8%
New York: 51.9%
Connecticut: 51.8%
New Hampshire: 50.3%

New Jersey: 46.2%
Delaware: 45.4%
Pennsylvania: 44.3%
Maryland: 42.6%

It appears the majority of white voters in New England and New York supported Obama in 2012 (something which was also true in Hawaii only). However, white voters in the Mid-Atlantic states are considerably more conservative. Not red-state conservative, but still more right wing than much of the Midwest (IA, WI, MN, and in some cases IL/MI) and the Pacific Northwest. This makes logical sense, because as I've shown on other threads, there's a sort of north-to-south political gradient (excepting urban areas and minority heavy counties) which can clearly be seen across the entire eastern U.S.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:33 PM
 
4,797 posts, read 5,985,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
New York doesn't have townships. Like New England, it has towns. That said, my experience is the meaning of towns tends to vary dramatically from area to area. In most of Upstate New York, they are relatively small and mostly function like New England towns as the fundamental structure of government. Closer to New York, particularly in Long Island, they can be quite large. Nassau county only has three towns, one of which has 760,000 people. There county government is more important, as are the incorporated villages to local identity.



Here are some estimates made back in 2012 of Obama's share of the white vote by state in the Northeast:

Vermont: 66.4%
Rhode Island: 58.9%
Massachusetts: 55.9%
Maine: 54.8%
New York: 51.9%
Connecticut: 51.8%
New Hampshire: 50.3%

New Jersey: 46.2%
Delaware: 45.4%
Pennsylvania: 44.3%
Maryland: 42.6%

It appears the majority of white voters in New England and New York supported Obama in 2012 (something which was also true in Hawaii only). However, white voters in the Mid-Atlantic states are considerably more conservative. Not red-state conservative, but still more right wing than much of the Midwest (IA, WI, MN, and in some cases IL/MI) and the Pacific Northwest. This makes logical sense, because as I've shown on other threads, there's a sort of north-to-south political gradient (excepting urban areas and minority heavy counties) which can clearly be seen across the entire eastern U.S.
Maryland actually is home to one of the most conservative counties in the country. Rural Maryland is home to some conservative folk who don't mind being called Southern. Some of the Whites in the Maryland cities however do not share this mentality.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:08 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post

True everywhere but the South, as others noted.
With some overlap, the Northeast is still lower than the Midwest and Mountain West:

State by State Percentage of Evangelicals, Catholics, and Black Protestants - Beliefnet.com

Note northern New England is higher partly from having a higher non-hispanic white % in general. White evangelicals are nearly absent in downstate NY and not common in southern New England.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
With some overlap, the Northeast is still lower than the Midwest and Mountain West:

State by State Percentage of Evangelicals, Catholics, and Black Protestants - Beliefnet.com

Note northern New England is higher partly from having a higher non-hispanic white % in general. White evangelicals are nearly absent in downstate NY and not common in southern New England.
Is it lower than the Pacific NW however? I mean isn't that known as the "Unchurched Belt"?
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