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I increasingly get the impression from certain New Englanders who like to dismiss CT that 'Too much NY influence = Too many Italians'.
Personally I like both states for a multitude of reasons. I give the edge to CT becuase it is a bit less provincial. There is a certain hyper-nationalist strain in Mass that will act obnoxious to you when it is discovered you are not from Massachussetts.
Granted this exists in all states, but in Mass it is fairly prevalent, especially the eastern part of the state. Woe is to Nutmeggers and Knickerbockers who thought they could get away with visiting Boston (much less live there) without feeling like they are barely tolerated by a certain segment of the population. Not everyone, mind you. I have made good friends from Mass, but sometimes...
Or because 1/2 of Connecticuts population is the the NYC CSA, South of Hartford they are Knicks, Yankee, Giants and Ranger Fans.
Or their accent is different.
Or they are served by the MTA
They are in the NY media Market
So NY influence is not the Italians it's because parts of the state are 20 miles from NYC
Personally I like both states for a multitude of reasons. I give the edge to CT becuase it is a bit less provincial. There is a certain hyper-nationalist strain in Mass that will act obnoxious to you when it is discovered you are not from Massachussetts.
Some of the provincial I find a plus. The hyper-nationalist strain you described is obnoxious (haven't noticed in western MA) There's more of a sense in Massachusetts of being not anywhere, USA giving it more of a sense of place.
Some of the provincial I find a plus. The hyper-nationalist strain you described is obnoxious (haven't noticed in western MA) There's more of a sense in Massachusetts of being not anywhere, USA giving it more of a sense of place.
I agree that provinciality has a positive side because of the sense of place, belonging, and cultural integrity it creates. Some of my favorite place in the U.S. and abroad are provincial in character. But it can have a dark side, namely xenophobia, closed-mindedness and intolerance.
It is a double edged sword. But I would never tell Bostoners to stop being Bostoners, just lighten up a little.
It sounds like I am really picking on Boston, and for that I apologize. I like Boston and the people of Eastern Mass a lot. And I am from a place that gets similar flack for many of the same reasons.
But having been an 'expat' from the Northeast for years, I just feel how unproductive the rivalries in the Northeast have become. Many of my good friends here in the New Mexico are a motley group of New Englanders (Mass and Vermont), upstate New Yorkers, and NYC folks.
In contrast with the local culture of New Mexico we are like peas in a pod, while back home it would be more like oil and water. Most of us have known each other for almost ten years and baseball season is still contentious :-)
Some of the provincial I find a plus. The hyper-nationalist strain you described is obnoxious (haven't noticed in western MA) There's more of a sense in Massachusetts of being not anywhere, USA giving it more of a sense of place.
Totally agreed on this. As a New Yorker, I've been hearing people criticize Massachusetts as provincial my whole life, but since moving to Rhode Island -- basically the Boston exurbs -- a year ago, I've found I actually really like that attitude. I feel like I've actually relocated somewhere, where life revolves around a new place, where people care about different issues, where certain things take on a different importance. Boston really is the Hub of the Universe here, and that doesn't annoy me at all -- I find it novel and refreshing.
3 out of 8 counties in CT are part of the NY CSA and one is part of the Boston CSA. That leaves only 4 of the 8 counties as part of the Hartford CSA. The Hartford CSA provides a very good quality of life, is more laid back, affordable and is sort of an oasis within the BosWash Corridor. It stands on its own and has no influences from NYC or Boston. That's why I like it and I am native to that area. No stupid accents either. It has its own international airport, too. And a stable economy. It's just very well rounded and I think it's one of the most underrated CSA's within the nation.
I grew up all the way until the age of 20 without ever having even visited NYC or Boston. That's how distinct the Hartford area is. People don't really care to go to NYC or Boston THAT much. The Hartford area is however, quite provincial, but in a good way. There are many people from other regions of the U.S. and we welcome them and just mind our own business as usual.
My Italian grandparents settled in Hartford back in the 1950's, then later on bought a house in West Hartford in 1973. They're still there. My parents lived in Hartford county their entire life and are still there and like it. My younger brother bought a house there and likes it. So, my family has been there for generations for SIXTY years now. And heck, I currently live in Fairfield County and would love to go back to Hartford County. It's a different world. But it provides a high quality of life and a very balanced, well rounded lifestyle, with an assortment of cities and towns for anyone who doesn't care for big city urban life.
I would also say that overall, Massachusetts in general seems a little more run down when crossing over from the CT border. CT just had a cleaner, manicured appearance with better roads, nicer houses and landscapes, and the like.
I would also say that overall, Massachusetts in general seems a little more run down when crossing over from the CT border. CT just had a cleaner, manicured appearance with better roads, nicer houses and landscapes, and the like.
nep always wants someone to take the bait, so here goes. When crossing over into Massachusetts from the Hartford area of Connecticut, you go from a prosperous, suburban/rural landscape to a relatively poor and working class, deindustrialized collection of worn-out cities (Springfield, Chicopee, Holyoke) and their surrounding communities. I daresay that's the comparison nep has in mind. If you cross into Mass on Route 7, not much difference. If you cross over on Route 32 north from Stafford Springs, not much difference. If you cross over along I-84, not much difference (?) I will agree, however, that when crossing over from Woodstock, CT into Massachusetts things get more patchy and run down rather quickly.
From what I've seen overall, Conn is more consistent with Mass having greater extremes-- more crazy wild beauty in both cities and landscapes than anything in Conn but also areas that seem scruffy and run down in a way you wouldn't find so easily in Connecticut.
Still, they're a lot more like each other than either one is like any other state in the Union. Two peas in a pod...
nep always wants someone to take the bait, so here goes. When crossing over into Massachusetts from the Hartford area of Connecticut, you go from a prosperous, suburban/rural landscape to a relatively poor and working class, deindustrialized collection of worn-out cities (Springfield, Chicopee, Holyoke) and their surrounding communities. I daresay that's the comparison nep has in mind. If you cross into Mass on Route 7, not much difference. If you cross over on Route 32 north from Stafford Springs, not much difference. If you cross over along I-84, not much difference (?) I will agree, however, that when crossing over from Woodstock, CT into Massachusetts things get more patchy and run down rather quickly.
From what I've seen overall, Conn is more consistent with Mass having greater extremes-- more crazy wild beauty in both cities and landscapes than anything in Conn but also areas that seem scruffy and run down in a way you wouldn't find so easily in Connecticut.
Still, they're a lot more like each other than either one is like any other state in the Union. Two peas in a pod...
I think Connecticut is substantially different than Massachusetts in terms of appearance and vibe. Connecticut seems more average American, but Massachusetts has a more quintessential New England feel. Crossing over the border from Hartford County, CT into Hampden County, MA is like night and day. Hartford County is clean, beautiful and people are much more well off. Hampden County is even poorer than counties you find out in the Midwest or South. Very run down and many crime ridden areas (Chicopee, Springfield, Holyoke). It feels MUCH more blue collar, while CT feels much more white collar in general. Not that there's anything bad or wrong with blue collar, but typically blue collar folk simply don't earn as much income as white collar folk.
The terrain and landscape of MA is more rugged and has more coniferous forest. CT is lower elevation and flatter feeling and is almost exclusively deciduous forest. CT feels more humid and subtropical in the summer, and it is. Summers are almost Florida-like and the sun shines brighter than it does in MA.
Another thing to note is that CT doesn't really have a sense of pride or unity that is present in MA. People seem to be more proud to say that they're from Massachusetts, because it has a city called Boston. Connecticut doesn't have any world class cities or big cities at all that foster the sense of pride. CT also seems more low profile or quiet than MA. CT isn't a destination state, but MA is.
People from CT seem to be more uniformly well off than people from MA. But statistical evidence says otherwise. CT has the second highest income inequality in the nation (NY is first), with Fairfield County having the #1 income inequality in the nation, and I live in it right now.
I think Connecticut is substantially different than Massachusetts in terms of appearance and vibe. Connecticut seems more average American, but Massachusetts has a more quintessential New England feel. Crossing over the border from Hartford County, CT into Hampden County, MA is like night and day. Hartford County is clean, beautiful and people are much more well off. Hampden County is even poorer than counties you find out in the Midwest or South. Very run down and many crime ridden areas (Chicopee, Springfield, Holyoke). It feels MUCH more blue collar, while CT feels much more white collar in general. Not that there's anything bad or wrong with blue collar, but typically blue collar folk simply don't earn as much income as white collar folk.
Hartford city proper as bad as Springfield or Holyoke. The surroundings of Hartford are more white collar than Springfield's, but I wouldn't call them run down. And besides West Hartford, the Hartford metro seems rather generic. Besides Springfield and Holyoke, Connecticut cities on average seem to be in worse shape than Massachusetts ones.
Still, they're a lot more like each other than either one is like any other state in the Union. Two peas in a pod...
Well, southeast Massachusetts has a lot in common with Rhode Island. And rural western Massachusetts a lot with Vermont to the north.
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