The South Will Rise Again (vs., places, quality)

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Big Ten Football!

THat is a whole new thread topic called, "The Big Ten will rise again". After this year it appears that the Big Ten is on the rise.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by JMatl

^Please stay in Mexico City. Someone with this much hatred and outright contempt for a huge region of their home Country really doesn't deserve to live here, in my opinion.

Your views are basically treasonous, and beyond divisive.

Treasonous? Get a grip. Just because I prefer the North is no reason to go nuts.

And I'll be moving back to Ohio some day. I'm sure that upsets you.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Treasonous? Get a grip. Just because I prefer the North is no reason to go nuts.

And I'll be moving back to Ohio some day. I'm sure that upsets you.

Oh, but it's more than a preference. When you start to fabricate things to further your agenda, it's way more.

I could care less if you move back to Ohio.

[snj90]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Culturally, I find Southern "courtesy" to be old-fashioned and honestly, pretty fake.

This is a criticism that I've seen before. Not necessarily here but elsewhere. The idea that friendliness and courtesy are "fake." I think this assessment is problematic and flawed for several reasons. For one, what would it require to be true and not fake? Must you have a meaningful personal connection to somebody to be outwardly friendly to them? That's a pretty ridiculous idea to have when most people we come in contact with in daily life are not close friends. Furthermore, being friendly to people is a virtue because it increases social harmony and is in the interests of the common good. Lastly, the idea that folks who are outwardly friendly tend to be secretly hostile to you is completely without merit. While that may happen sometimes, there's no reason at all to think a Southerner who is polite to you is more likely to hate you deep down inside than a non-Southerner who is not friendly to you. Also, I tend to believe that even if friendliness be contrived in some instances because it's a social expectation, simply acting kind to people will tend to make one feel that way inwardly as well. In other words, while our internal mental states affect our external behavior, our behavior also affects how we truly feel. So while there may be exceptions, when you act kindly to others, how you truly feel about these people will tend more toward benevolence than if you act unkindly toward others; in that case, your true feelings will likewise tend toward a lack of benevolence.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by snj90

This is a criticism that I've seen before. Not necessarily here but elsewhere. The idea that friendliness and courtesy are "fake." I think this assessment is problematic and flawed for several reasons. For one, what would it require to be true and not fake? Must you have a meaningful personal connection to somebody to be outwardly friendly to them? That's a pretty ridiculous idea to have when most people we come in contact with in daily life are not close friends. Furthermore, being friendly to people is a virtue because it increases social harmony and is in the interests of the common good. Lastly, the idea that folks who are outwardly friendly tend to be secretly hostile to you is completely without merit. While that may happen sometimes, there's no reason at all to think a Southerner who is polite to you is more likely to hate you deep down inside than a non-Southerner who is not friendly to you. Also, I tend to believe that even if friendliness be contrived in some instances because it's a social expectation, simply acting kind to people will tend to make one feel that way inwardly as well. In other words, while our internal mental states affect our external behavior, our behavior also affects how we truly feel. So while there may be exceptions, when you act kindly to others, how you truly feel about these people will tend more toward benevolence than if you act unkindly toward others; in that case, your true feelings will likewise tend toward a lack of benevolence.

Fabulous post, thank you!

I've noticed that this is usually only brought up by people that REALLY hate the South for some reason. The politeness and warmth experienced is not fake, by any means.

[UKWildcat1981]

Originally Posted by JMatl

Fabulous post, thank you!

I've noticed that this is usually only brought up by people that REALLY hate the South for some reason. The politeness and warmth experienced is not fake, by any means.

I agree as well, I was actually shocked when I moved to the South that the women are not only gorgeous but friendly and outgoing as well.. growing up in the Northeast and Ohio most of the gorgeous women are mostly into money and looks and won't give you the time of day if you don't fit their idea of what their bf or husband should look like, southern women are very polite and gracious and I appreciate their outgoing nature. One my favorite things about living in the South the women

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by JMatl

Oh, but it's more than a preference. When you start to fabricate things to further your agenda, it's way more.

I could care less if you move back to Ohio.

What did I fabricate, exactly?

And I would be curious what makes me treasonous.

[EscAlaMike]

Originally Posted by tom77falcons

I think that you have more common ground with many people on the left of the political spectrum than you might imagine. I agree completely we need to end the giant US world policeman military and industrial complex. I don't want the US involved in any overseas adventures unless our people, interests, and territory are in grave danger (to quote FDR).

I also think the Fed Govt has gotten too bloated and oversized. Needs to be cut back sizeably, but still provide for regulation of commerce between states and regulate things that cross state borders like water and air pollution. Also, we need a Fed role in infrastructure and of course the protection of our civil rights.

I know who I have "common ground" with. I am not a part of any political party. I have no loyalty to Democrats or Republicans.

My question to you is, how can you speak out against American foreign policy and the military-industrial complex while supporting the US in the War Between the States?

Do you know what event in history has most greatly influenced American foreign policy and militarism? The triumph of the US over the South gave the US the green light to meddle elsewhere. It turned the US into an imperialist nation that feels justified in spreading "democracy" at the barrel of a gun. "We did it to the South, we can do it anywhere!".

You need to be consistent. Are there things about the antebellum Southern way of life that you and I find objectionable, or indeed are morally repugnant? Of course! Does that mean that they didn't have the right, as free human beings, to assert their independence? When a government becomes destructive to freedom, it is the right and duty of people to either separate from that government, or establish a new one. The Southern states were well within their rights to separate from the US.

Did the US states have the right to assert their independence from Britain? Slavery existed in the North as well during that time (1776). Did the US lose its right to self-government based on the fact that they supported slavery? I think (I hope) you would say "no".

Do the Palestinians, Iraqis, and Iranians have the right to self-government and self-determination? Slavery still exists in many Muslim nations. Does that mean that the US has the right to go in and topple their governments?

The US government of 1861 is the same entity as the US government in 2015. They committed atrocities on the North American continent then (forcible slaughter and removal of Indians, invasion of the sovereign and independent states of the South, etc), they commit atrocities on almost every continent now.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by snj90

This is a criticism that I've seen before. Not necessarily here but elsewhere. The idea that friendliness and courtesy are "fake." I think this assessment is problematic and flawed for several reasons. For one, what would it require to be true and not fake? Must you have a meaningful personal connection to somebody to be outwardly friendly to them? That's a pretty ridiculous idea to have when most people we come in contact with in daily life are not close friends. Furthermore, being friendly to people is a virtue because it increases social harmony and is in the interests of the common good. Lastly, the idea that folks who are outwardly friendly tend to be secretly hostile to you is completely without merit. While that may happen sometimes, there's no reason at all to think a Southerner who is polite to you is more likely to hate you deep down inside than a non-Southerner who is not friendly to you. Also, I tend to believe that even if friendliness be contrived in some instances because it's a social expectation, simply acting kind to people will tend to make one feel that way inwardly as well. In other words, while our internal mental states affect our external behavior, our behavior also affects how we truly feel. So while there may be exceptions, when you act kindly to others, how you truly feel about these people will tend more toward benevolence than if you act unkindly toward others; in that case, your true feelings will likewise tend toward a lack of benevolence.

I mean fake in that Southerners seem more prone to be nice to your face but not really tell you what they really think. I think that's part of the reason the North has a less friendly reputation... they're more prone to be direct. Maybe you don't think so, but I fall on the side that honesty is far more important than simply putting on a good face for someone. Honesty doesn't have to be unfriendly, anyway, and I have more respect for those who don't just tell me what cultural expectation may dictate.

Now all that said, I don't think Southerners are ultimately any less nice than people anywhere else. People are pretty much the same just about everywhere, just with slight variations. In that way, and with the cultural variation above, I just don't think the hype is justified. Everyone can disagree, just giving my pov.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Treasonous? Get a grip. Just because I prefer the North is no reason to go nuts.

Yeah, its not like you unleashed 34 consecutive hours of heavily artillery fire on an American military installation in order to start a war. Because THAT would be treasonous.