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I think the title of the OP is a bit misleading. Everything in the U.S. is smaller than NYC after all. Amsterdam isn't a small city either - it has over 800,000 people in the city proper. It's also far higher density, residentially speaking, than anything in the U.S. with the exception of NYC. Basically the entire city is made up of rowhouses or small apartment buildings - there aren't any detached single-family houses anywhere, which isn't true of anywhere in the U.S. except for Philadelphia (almost).
I presume by "not big" you mean you want to find human-scale urban neighborhoods - places without skyscrapers, but which look much denser than the detached single-family house norm.
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Originally Posted by someonejustsneezedoutside
Ckh: I had it on my list, but every time I mentioned that I was considering it to people, they made a face that was a mixture of disgust and confusion and said, "Pittsburgh? Really?" So I was a little discouraged. How is public transportation? I've heard about budget cuts. I might have to add that back to my list of places to visit... Never know until you're there!
Pittsburgh is a great city for its size. Public transportation has been cut back, but this mostly affected the suburbs - if you are in the city proper it's just fine. And given your interests I can think of a few neighborhoods you'd like quite a good deal...such as here.
I think the title of the OP is a bit misleading. Everything in the U.S. is smaller than NYC after all. Amsterdam isn't a small city either - it has over 800,000 people in the city proper. It's also far higher density, residentially speaking, than anything in the U.S. with the exception of NYC. Basically the entire city is made up of rowhouses or small apartment buildings - there aren't any detached single-family houses anywhere, which isn't true of anywhere in the U.S. except for Philadelphia (almost).
I tried my best with the title and mulled a lot over what to put for the size, but it was difficult to convey exactly what I meant in one line, so I hoped that my initial post could provide some direction. Some of this actually fell under "character" when I said I wanted something with a smaller town feeling even if it's not necessarily a small town. And "city-cities" was my sad attempt to describe what I wanted to avoid (an overwhelming, scyscraper-filled city).
I know Amsterdam is quite populated/dense... But it didn't feel that populated and I liked that I could easily walk most places.
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I presume by "not big" you mean you want to find human-scale urban neighborhoods - places without skyscrapers, but which look much denser than the detached single-family house norm.
Just about! Thank you for putting that into words for me. As I mentioned, I was having trouble explaining exactly what I was looking for in terms of size. I was hoping that my desire for walkability would weed out any suggestions of the detached single-family house norm, but I think your description is more clear. I think the only thing I would add is that if said neighborhoods had a certain old charm or character (or, dare I say... cuteness), all the better.
(Since I can't edit my original post, I tried to bold the relevant parts)
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Pittsburgh is a great city for its size. Public transportation has been cut back, but this mostly affected the suburbs - if you are in the city proper it's just fine. And given your interests I can think of a few neighborhoods you'd like quite a good deal...such as here.
I like the neighborhoody apartment feel of Philly and Pittsburgh. I may have to visit both because it's hard to get a sense of a place from words and pictures alone. Between the two, I think Philly might be a better location for visiting the DC area, but I do like the smaller size of Pittsburgh. And perhaps the size/location provides more access to nature/scenery?
Last edited by someonejustsneezedoutside; 02-23-2015 at 05:18 PM..
I like the neighborhoody apartment feel of Philly and Pittsburgh. I may have to visit both because it's hard to get a sense of a place from words and pictures alone. Between the two, I think Philly might be a better location for visiting the DC area, but I do like the smaller size of Pittsburgh. And perhaps the size/location provides more access to nature/scenery?
If you are traveling by car, there isn't a huge difference in getting to NoVa from Philly and Pittsburgh. Depending on when you go, since traffic will vary, it will probably take over 3 hours from Philly, and you can probably get there in 3.5 from Pittsburgh.
Visit both to see which neighborhoods that are in you price range look better to you. Pittsburgh will probably be a little more affordable than Philly.
I like the neighborhoody apartment feel of Philly and Pittsburgh. I may have to visit both because it's hard to get a sense of a place from words and pictures alone. Between the two, I think Philly might be a better location for visiting the DC area, but I do like the smaller size of Pittsburgh. And perhaps the size/location provides more access to nature/scenery?
Neither Pittsburgh nor Philly are apartment-heavy cities, but cities which have (traditionally) been influenced by attached single-family houses, or rowhouses. Pittsburgh only has two or three areas where there are a lot of apartment buildings, and these were mostly built out in the 20th century.
Pittsburgh and Philly have very similar architecture in their 19th century neighborhoods, although Pittsburgh has a fair number of frame houses (which were banned from Philadelphia due to concerns over fire). Beginning around 1900 the architectural vernacular in the two cities diverged considerably though, as Pittsburgh mostlyu turned away from the rowhouse and moved to detached styles, while Philadelphia kept building rowhouses through the 1950s (a rare characteristic it shared with only Baltimore).
The biggest difference between the two cities, however, is due to topography and its effect on the neighborhoods. Philadelphia has neighborhoods, but because there were few natural barriers between the neighborhoods, the boundaries were generally somewhat fuzzy, and more had to do with a change in the characteristics of the people who lived there than anything.
In contrast, Pittsburgh has the most severe topographic change of any major city in the country. It's not uncommon to have a "Flats" neighborhood, for example, which is a half mile from a "hilltop" neighborhood, but the latter is several hundred feet above on a sheer cliff, with only a few winding roads linking it to the outside world. Within a few miles you can move from an old 19th century mill neighborhood, to mid-century suburbia, and then to a bungalow belt. You can find enclaves of weird semi-rural backwoods only a few miles from Downtown. Pittsburgh has 90 official neighborhoods, probably a dozen more unofficial ones widely accepted, and most of them have a distinct identity. In a lot of ways it feels more like a bunch of villages smooshed together than a normal city.
Thanks for offering an alternative to Charlottesville! People had recommended C'ville to me, but it seems a bit pricy for a mid-size town. Do you know if public transportation within Staunton and Cumberland are good? I saw some bus schedules, but it's hard to get a sense of the quality of public transit from schedules alone.
I've definitely considered looking at college towns, but it's a bit tricky because there are simply so many colleges abounding these days. I actually used to live in the five-college area of western Mass, and it was beautiful and charming, but many of the buses stopped running in the summer. But maybe if I narrow my search by state, I'll have better luck. Thanks! Also, I've seen Buffalo come up for affordability/walkability before, so maybe it is worth checking out...
Perhaps it was unfair to say that Atlanta is big... But, I don't know... It just seemed a bit more spread out than some other (especially northern) towns I've seen. I visited downtown Decatur and Inman Park, as well as Cabbage Town and Reynoldstown. The houses in the last two were adorable, and Inman Park was beautiful of course, but for some reason everything felt split up to me. I definitely liked it better than some of the places I visited in North Carolina, which surprised me, but maybe it's just not the right time? I'll definitely reconsider it down the road, or maybe I'll put it back on the list if I feel a pull back there after I've visited some more places.
Savannah is where SCAD is, so it's definitely come up on my radar. Hm... I should investigate...
Thanks for the tips! It looks like a visit to Philly is indeed in order. Providence might go on the list to research too. It kept coming up, but for some reason I kept glossing over it.
OK, now to do some more research, make a list, and plan a road trip...
If you are traveling by car, there isn't a huge difference in getting to NoVa from Philly and Pittsburgh. Depending on when you go, since traffic will vary, it will probably take over 3 hours from Philly, and you can probably get there in 3.5 from Pittsburgh.
Visit both to see which neighborhoods that are in you price range look better to you. Pittsburgh will probably be a little more affordable than Philly.
I wouldn't be going by car, since I'd be living carless. It looks like DC would be about two hours by amtrak, which would be convenient and I do like to travel by train. For Pittsburgh, my main options would be a one hour flight or a 6 hour bus ride (or a 7 hour train ride). I'm not planning on visiting home so frequently that I would eliminate Pittsburgh based on this, but I do like the idea of having easy access.
Quote:
Neither Pittsburgh nor Philly are apartment-heavy cities, but cities which have (traditionally) been influenced by attached single-family houses, or rowhouses. Pittsburgh only has two or three areas where there are a lot of apartment buildings, and these were mostly built out in the 20th century.
Pittsburgh and Philly have very similar architecture in their 19th century neighborhoods, although Pittsburgh has a fair number of frame houses (which were banned from Philadelphia due to concerns over fire). Beginning around 1900 the architectural vernacular in the two cities diverged considerably though, as Pittsburgh mostlyu turned away from the rowhouse and moved to detached styles, while Philadelphia kept building rowhouses through the 1950s (a rare characteristic it shared with only Baltimore).
The biggest difference between the two cities, however, is due to topography and its effect on the neighborhoods. Philadelphia has neighborhoods, but because there were few natural barriers between the neighborhoods, the boundaries were generally somewhat fuzzy, and more had to do with a change in the characteristics of the people who lived there than anything.
In contrast, Pittsburgh has the most severe topographic change of any major city in the country. It's not uncommon to have a "Flats" neighborhood, for example, which is a half mile from a "hilltop" neighborhood, but the latter is several hundred feet above on a sheer cliff, with only a few winding roads linking it to the outside world. Within a few miles you can move from an old 19th century mill neighborhood, to mid-century suburbia, and then to a bungalow belt. You can find enclaves of weird semi-rural backwoods only a few miles from Downtown. Pittsburgh has 90 official neighborhoods, probably a dozen more unofficial ones widely accepted, and most of them have a distinct identity. In a lot of ways it feels more like a bunch of villages smooshed together than a normal city.
Thanks for all this information! I'm still not sure if either Pittsburgh or Philly is right for me, but I suppose I'll never know until I visit.
Well since we've revived this thread and I love to rep my city,
Tacoma checks off the boxes.
1. (Relatively) Affordable. You could definitely live here with a roommate or two and pay 600 a month! In most neighborhoods.
2. Walkable and/or with decent public transportation. A lot of the city is very walkable. Many different districts and neighborhoods, the further out from the city center, the less walkable however (Generally speaking). Public transportation is good in most neighborhoods. The best is downtown/ Stadium District.
3. Small(er) city or town. Population 2017 is about 215,000. It's not too small or too big and if you wwant big city amenities, you're close to Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver. The CSA I believe is around 4.7 million.
4. Character. Tacoma Is an old city (by western standards) and has a lot of preserved character from the late 1800's and early 1900's. Lots of Victorian, Craftsman, and some Spanish architecture. Not completely gentrified, yet.. But many locals are starting to combat gentrification/ sterilization.
5. Arts. Tacoma ha,s by circumstance, found the equation for a genuine art scene. Many artists live here, and even those who are not still recognize and appreciate it. Tacoma is known for it's glass art, partially because of Dale Chihuly and his investments.
6. Location. You're right in the middle of the 3 main PNW metros, Vancouver, Portland, and Seattle. Lots of amenities, but also very close to pristine nature.
7. Nature/Scenic. It doesn't get any better. You have the sound, a variety of microclimates, a colossal volcano over 14,000 feet tall, seeing it from sea level, rain forests, beaches, marine life. Even palm trees and other exotic foliage if you so please.
8. Weather/Climate. It is a cool climate. The winters are "mild" but to me they are cold. That is the only drawback for me here. They are grey and cold honestly, but 6-7 months of the year, I think the weather is wonderful, even when foggy or grey. The summers have to be the best on planet earth. I am convinced. It is like nothing else I've experienced.
Last edited by blaserbrad; 03-21-2017 at 04:07 PM..
This may or may not be helpful, but I've heard from some folks who gave up on Austin and moved to Lafayette, IN and love it- a small city but a big college and in a relaxed and pretty setting. You're a few hours from Indianapolis if you have big-city needs. And I'm sure it's cheaper than Boston or any place on the East Coast or the Pac NW. Maybe this is TOO quiet and isolated for what you want. But maybe worth reading up on.
Last edited by Piper909; 03-23-2017 at 01:42 PM..
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