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Coconut palms on South Padre are protected for the 1-5 days every winter they get which could kill the palm tree. Overall South Padre has warmer winters than Santa Monica, and this is reflected in the soil temperature.
True, but even then the USDA gives the island a 10b rating, as you can see with how severe the record lows have gotten (0 degrees!). Just because it doesn't happen for very long, doesn't mean it isn't severe.
Also, L.A.-Mex and yourself don't need to use SaMo for every comparison. It's not the absolute warmest coastal spot in SoCal.
I actually agree with the OP about living without AC. Sure it would be doable but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would want to live without those amenities.
But a lot of what he says is also a little fantasized. Yea, those thunderstorms cool it down for about 30 minutes. Then the sun comes back out and it feels twice as humid as before.
At the same time, plenty of people would want to do what they can to be less wasteful, taking all sorts of measures to achieve such a state, including living without Heat and AC in the South.
The air after a well-developed soaking thunderstorm, complete with the sea-breeze gust front, will remain quenched and cool for the rest of day, even if said storm occurred in the morning. In addition, such summer thunderstorms occur due to solar heating, and thus, often times, they don't form until late afternoon, meaning that the effects of their relief will last until the sun finally goes down. People then enjoy comfortable conditions for that entire time frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
Plus, a lot of those animals you mentioned, while they sound exotic, are not really. Jaguars were native to most of the southern United States including the desert southwest. The only reason they dissapeared was over hunting and border fences keeping their migration patterns limited. Those plants don't really have much to do with temps either. Texas does not have an 11A usda zone but yes, South Padre Island can support some coco palms. Why? It has more to do wth soil temps than anything. SoCal has some 11A microclimates but we get cooler rains in the winter. When soil temps drop below a certain point the tree can no longer thrive. Texas sees colder temps each winter than anywhere in SoCal but they are usually only a few days long and don't drop cold rains on these palms.
But the whole cold epoch? I've searched everywhere and have been studying meteorology on my own terms for almost ten years. Absolutely nothing on this mystical matter.
I'm not mentioning that the South contains those animals, and plants just to show any exoticness; I am mentioning them as one of the many forms of proof that the South indeed is a naturally warm climate, and that this time of infrequent cold snaps, and "polar vortices" people constantly talk of is only temporary. Those specific animals and plants are quite tender to cold, and the fact that they range naturally into the South is proof positive that at a natural state, the South has the suitable, warm-enough conditions to support such life.
Parts of Texas gets colder than Southern California does during winter, such as the Panhandle. But other parts of Texas, such as the southern, coastal area around South Padre, do not get colder than So Cal during a typical winter at all.
Yes, the Cold Epoch is real. Just keep looking, and you will find lots of articles on the matter. Google Books has plenty, and I will post some when I see them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami
Coconut palms on South Padre are protected for the 1-5 days every winter they get which could kill the palm tree. Overall South Padre has warmer winters than Santa Monica, and this is reflected in the soil temperature.
In a typical winter, South Padre will not see any days that will kill a coconut palm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
True, but even then the USDA gives the island a 10b rating, as you can see with how severe the record lows have gotten (0 degrees!). Just because it doesn't happen for very long, doesn't mean it isn't severe.
Also, L.A.-Mex and yourself don't need to use SaMo for every comparison. It's not the absolute warmest coastal spot in SoCal.
Do you really think that a temp of 0F was actually recorded at South Padre? Are you really serious? Do you ride the short bus, or something?
This is the exact stuff I am referring to with amateur climatologists such as yourself; you all just blindly swallow the data hook, line, and sinker, without even the slightest iota of critical thinking whatsoever. No questioning of whether or not such a recording even made sense at all given the circumstances. Any common man can see that such a temp for South Padre Island was clearly erroneous, and yet you amateur climatologists just blindly buy into it.
At the same time, plenty of people would want to do what they can to be less wasteful, taking all sorts of measures to achieve such a state, including living without Heat and AC in the South.
The air after a well-developed soaking thunderstorm, complete with the sea-breeze gust front, will remain quenched and cool for the rest of day, even if said storm occurred in the morning. In addition, such summer thunderstorms occur due to solar heating, and thus, often times, they don't form until late afternoon, meaning that the effects of their relief will last until the sun finally goes down. People then enjoy comfortable conditions for that entire time frame.
I'm not mentioning that the South contains those animals, and plants just to show any exoticness; I am mentioning them as one of the many forms of proof that the South indeed is a naturally warm climate, and that this time of infrequent cold snaps, and "polar vortices" people constantly talk of is only temporary. Those specific animals and plants are quite tender to cold, and the fact that they range naturally into the South is proof positive that at a natural state, the South has the suitable, warm-enough conditions to support such life.
Parts of Texas gets colder than Southern California does during winter, such as the Panhandle. But other parts of Texas, such as the southern, coastal area around South Padre, do not get colder than So Cal during a typical winter at all.
Yes, the Cold Epoch is real. Just keep looking, and you will find lots of articles on the matter. Google Books has plenty, and I will post some when I see them.
In a typical winter, South Padre will not see any days that will kill a coconut palm..
Do you really think that a temp of 0F was actually recorded at South Padre? Are you really serious? Do you ride the short bus, or something?
This is the exact stuff I am referring to with amateur climatologists such as yourself; you all just blindly swallow the data hook, line, and sinker, without even the slightest iota of critical thinking whatsoever. No questioning of whether or not such a recording even made sense at all given the circumstances. Any common man can see that such a temp for South Padre Island was clearly erroneous, and yet you amateur climatologists just blindly buy into it.
Don't get defensive and pretentious about it. I'll admit I missed that last part, but that doesn't make me an amateur.
Also, if I had a nickel for every time you said you would post an article about the cold epoch when you found it...well, you get the idea. This has been going on for well over a month now and I have yet to see an article.
I never said South Padre Island was colder in winter "typically" than SoCal. I just said that it DOES experience more severe cold snaps, regardless of how long they last. (15 degrees, which is the actual record low at South Padre Island, is still pretty damn cold). That doesn't even paint the whole picture. If it had the ability to get that cold at least once, how many times do you think those records may have been challenged by similar yet warmer temps.
And Felids are actually very cold hardy animals, but I had already agreed with you that they would thrive in the South. Because I never debated that the south (coastal) was, on average, a warm climate. It completely is, but the cold snaps they get are not "unnatural". You insist that it will somehow revert back to "normal". Guess what? There is no "normal" in meteorology unless you are talking very short term. The atmosphere is ever changing, and what was so called normal 12,000 years ago would not be considered normal now.
At the same time, plenty of people would want to do what they can to be less wasteful, taking all sorts of measures to achieve such a state, including living without Heat and AC in the South.
The air after a well-developed soaking thunderstorm, complete with the sea-breeze gust front, will remain quenched and cool for the rest of day, even if said storm occurred in the morning. In addition, such summer thunderstorms occur due to solar heating, and thus, often times, they don't form until late afternoon, meaning that the effects of their relief will last until the sun finally goes down. People then enjoy comfortable conditions for that entire time frame.
I'm not mentioning that the South contains those animals, and plants just to show any exoticness; I am mentioning them as one of the many forms of proof that the South indeed is a naturally warm climate, and that this time of infrequent cold snaps, and "polar vortices" people constantly talk of is only temporary. Those specific animals and plants are quite tender to cold, and the fact that they range naturally into the South is proof positive that at a natural state, the South has the suitable, warm-enough conditions to support such life.
Parts of Texas gets colder than Southern California does during winter, such as the Panhandle. But other parts of Texas, such as the southern, coastal area around South Padre, do not get colder than So Cal during a typical winter at all.
Yes, the Cold Epoch is real. Just keep looking, and you will find lots of articles on the matter. Google Books has plenty, and I will post some when I see them.
In a typical winter, South Padre will not see any days that will kill a coconut palm.
Do you really think that a temp of 0F was actually recorded at South Padre? Are you really serious? Do you ride the short bus, or something?
This is the exact stuff I am referring to with amateur climatologists such as yourself; you all just blindly swallow the data hook, line, and sinker, without even the slightest iota of critical thinking whatsoever. No questioning of whether or not such a recording even made sense at all given the circumstances. Any common man can see that such a temp for South Padre Island was clearly erroneous, and yet you amateur climatologists just blindly buy into it.
None of those animals live in the south. Stop. Seriously, show me a picture of a jaguar in Georgia, flamingoes in Texas, ocelots in Virginia, monkeys in Florida, etc. all BS.
South Texas does get colder than us in winter, fact, their absolute mins are way colder than ours. They average multiple freezes each winter, we average less than 1. Our warmest winter microclimates see average highs of low 70s throughout winter (same as south Texas). Also south Texas doesn't get as warm as U.S. in winter. This past February we saw an average high of 82 F, January of 2014 saw an average high of 81 F... Does south Texas see that? Does south Texas see upper 90s record highs in its winter months? If it does please let me know.
COLD EPOCH IS BS, the south is a natuaraly humid continental and humid subtropical climate zone. Coolest subtropical area of all continents, even cooler than Asia's. South China's subtropics are quite warm for exams Hong Kong, whose record lows are warmer than anything in the eastern USA.
COLD EPOCH IS BS, the south is a natuaraly humid continental and humid subtropical climate zone. Coolest subtropical area of all continents, even cooler than Asia's. South China's subtropics are quite warm for exams Hong Kong, whose record lows are warmer than anything in the eastern USA.
I'm not sure if any part of the south is humid continental, even Washington DC is classified as humid subtropical, but there maybe some towns in Kentucky or some mountain towns in Tennessee that get that classification.
Entire South Florida is classified by Koeppen as Tropical
Quote:
Miami has a tropical monsoon climate (Köppen climate classification Am)[36] with hot and humid summers and short, warm winters, with a marked drier season in the winter. Its sea-level elevation, coastal location, position just above the Tropic of Cancer, and proximity to the Gulf Stream shapes its climate. With January averaging 67.2 °F (19.6 °C), winter features mild to warm temperatures; cool air usually settles after the passage of a cold front, which produces much of the little amount of rainfall.
South Padre is classified as humid subtropical however its night time temperatures average higher than those of Santa Monica :
Dec/Jan/Feb
South Padre - 70-53/68-52/71-55
Santa Monica - 64-51/64-51/63-52.
Average across the 3 coldest months for night time temperature
South Padre : 53.3
Santa Monica : 51.3
+2 for South Padre
Average across the 3 coldest months for day time temperature
I'm not sure if any part of the south is humid continental, even Washington DC is classified as humid subtropical, but there maybe some towns in Kentucky or some mountain towns in Tennessee that get that classification.
Entire South Florida is classified by Koeppen as Tropical
South Padre is classified as humid subtropical however its night time temperatures average higher than those of Santa Monica :
Dec/Jan/Feb
South Padre - 70-53/68-52/71-55
Santa Monica - 64-51/64-51/63-52.
Average across the 3 coldest months for night time temperature
South Padre : 53.3
Santa Monica : 51.3
+2 for South Padre
Average across the 3 coldest months for day time temperature
South Padre: 69.7
Santa Monica: 63.7
+ 6 for South Padre.
Once again...Santa Monica is not the warmest place in CA. If if your going to compare the warmest place in Texas to warmer spots in SoCal, you will find many of them have similar or warmer daytime highs.
Don't get defensive and pretentious about it. I'll admit I missed that last part, but that doesn't make me an amateur.
Also, if I had a nickel for every time you said you would post an article about the cold epoch when you found it...well, you get the idea. This has been going on for well over a month now and I have yet to see an article.
Don't worry, I will find the article; I'm sifting through all the Google Books as we speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
I never said South Padre Island was colder in winter "typically" than SoCal. I just said that it DOES experience more severe cold snaps, regardless of how long they last. (15 degrees, which is the actual record low at South Padre Island, is still pretty damn cold). That doesn't even paint the whole picture. If it had the ability to get that cold at least once, how many times do you think those records may have been challenged by similar yet warmer temps.
And the ONLY reason South Padre was able to get so cold was due to the Cold Epoch over Eastern North America, which brings abnormally cold temps over the region. Once the Cold Epoch vanishes for good, South Padre would never get colder than SoCal; the cold snaps will be the stuff of legends. Even though SoCal, and much of the West has been spared from the effects of this Cold Epoch, those areas do see their share of cold snaps, with temps cold enough to kill loads of tropical/subtropical vegetation: 2007 Western United States freeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cold Epoches affect every continent at one point, or another; during the Little Ice Age Cold Epoch over Europe, even places in the Med saw huge blizzards each winter. When the Western US had its Cold Epoch, places as far south as the Big Sur had yearly snowfalls. Now, obviously, both regions are far warmer naturally than what happened during such periods; the same goes for the US South with these cold snaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
And Felids are actually very cold hardy animals, but I had already agreed with you that they would thrive in the South. Because I never debated that the south (coastal) was, on average, a warm climate. It completely is, but the cold snaps they get are not "unnatural". You insist that it will somehow revert back to "normal". Guess what? There is no "normal" in meteorology unless you are talking very short term. The atmosphere is ever changing, and what was so called normal 12,000 years ago would not be considered normal now.
The specific felids in question, jaguars, and ocelots, are tropical in nature, and thus, are tender to cold. Thus, the very fact that such cats are able to range into the Southern US shows just how warm the region is in its natural state, as well as the fact that these bouts of cold during winter are completely unnatural. Live oaks, magnolias, spanish moss, and other classical southern plants would not exist in the region if the cold snaps were natural; those plants can't tolerate such cold. In addition, coral reefs exist in the Gulf of Mexico, and on the shores of Florida, and would not be doing so if cold snaps were natural. You get the drift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.-Mex
None of those animals live in the south. Stop. Seriously, show me a picture of a jaguar in Georgia, flamingoes in Texas, ocelots in Virginia, monkeys in Florida, etc. all BS.
As for jaguars, and ocelots, they did exist in much of the South, including the states of Georgia, and Virginia, but unfortunately, poaching throughout history has remove the cats from their native ranges throughout those states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.-Mex
South Texas does get colder than us in winter, fact, their absolute mins are way colder than ours. They average multiple freezes each winter, we average less than 1. Our warmest winter microclimates see average highs of low 70s throughout winter (same as south Texas). Also south Texas doesn't get as warm as U.S. in winter. This past February we saw an average high of 82 F, January of 2014 saw an average high of 81 F... Does south Texas see that? Does south Texas see upper 90s record highs in its winter months? If it does please let me know.
South Texas too averages less than one freeze per year during winter, especially coastal areas such as South Padre Island. In fact, even areas as far up the coast as Galveston, and Bay Area Houston average less than one freeze per year. In addition, areas of the Gulf such as the Louisiana delta, extreme coastal Mississippi and Alabama, Florida(obviously), and the Sea Islands of Georgia and South Carolina, all can go years without freezing.
South Texas sees triple digits during winter, topless of 90F record temps. And winter averages can easily exceed the 82F.
South Texas can grow coconut palms, SoCal can't, that tells us which location is warmer during winter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.-Mex
COLD EPOCH IS BS, the south is a natuaraly humid continental and humid subtropical climate zone. Coolest subtropical area of all continents, even cooler than Asia's. South China's subtropics are quite warm for exams Hong Kong, whose record lows are warmer than anything in the eastern USA.
The Cold Epoch is real, several articles, and scientific papers discuss the phenomenon at great length.
Hong Kong is below the Tropic of Cancer; it is expected that record lows should be warmer than much of the Eastern US. Even with that, its record low (32F), is still lower than that of Miami Beach, and the Keys. South China should be warm, given that areas of that land go below the Tropic of Cancer, whereas all of the South US is well above that line of latitude. Even at that, South China is still much colder overall than the South US.
Don't worry, I will find the article; I'm sifting through all the Google Books as we speak.
And the ONLY reason South Padre was able to get so cold was due to the Cold Epoch over Eastern North America, which brings abnormally cold temps over the region. Once the Cold Epoch vanishes for good, South Padre would never get colder than SoCal; the cold snaps will be the stuff of legends. Even though SoCal, and much of the West has been spared from the effects of this Cold Epoch, those areas do see their share of cold snaps, with temps cold enough to kill loads of tropical/subtropical vegetation: 2007 Western United States freeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cold Epoches affect every continent at one point, or another; during the Little Ice Age Cold Epoch over Europe, even places in the Med saw huge blizzards each winter. When the Western US had its Cold Epoch, places as far south as the Big Sur had yearly snowfalls. Now, obviously, both regions are far warmer naturally than what happened during such periods; the same goes for the US South with these cold snaps.
The specific felids in question, jaguars, and ocelots, are tropical in nature, and thus, are tender to cold. Thus, the very fact that such cats are able to range into the Southern US shows just how warm the region is in its natural state, as well as the fact that these bouts of cold during winter are completely unnatural. Live oaks, magnolias, spanish moss, and other classical southern plants would not exist in the region if the cold snaps were natural; those plants can't tolerate such cold. In addition, coral reefs exist in the Gulf of Mexico, and on the shores of Florida, and would not be doing so if cold snaps were natural. You get the drift.
As for jaguars, and ocelots, they did exist in much of the South, including the states of Georgia, and Virginia, but unfortunately, poaching throughout history has remove the cats from their native ranges throughout those states.
South Texas too averages less than one freeze per year during winter, especially coastal areas such as South Padre Island. In fact, even areas as far up the coast as Galveston, and Bay Area Houston average less than one freeze per year. In addition, areas of the Gulf such as the Louisiana delta, extreme coastal Mississippi and Alabama, Florida(obviously), and the Sea Islands of Georgia and South Carolina, all can go years without freezing.
South Texas sees triple digits during winter, topless of 90F record temps. And winter averages can easily exceed the 82F.
South Texas can grow coconut palms, SoCal can't, that tells us which location is warmer during winter.
The Cold Epoch is real, several articles, and scientific papers discuss the phenomenon at great length.
Hong Kong is below the Tropic of Cancer; it is expected that record lows should be warmer than much of the Eastern US. Even with that, its record low (32F), is still lower than that of Miami Beach, and the Keys. South China should be warm, given that areas of that land go below the Tropic of Cancer, whereas all of the South US is well above that line of latitude. Even at that, South China is still much colder overall than the South US.
Give me an article that shows Big Sur had measurable snowfall every year. Where are these mythical theories/records? I won't argue at some point it probably did frequently, during the last ice age though. Until you post a legitimate article backing up your claims about a cold epoch, everything you say has no weight to it. It's simply BS.
Also, when you mention trees such as Live Oak, are you referencing the subspecies of Southern Live Oak? The one that grows along all southern (mostly coastal) states? Because they are very cold hardy. Down to even zone 7 which means they can handle temps just fine down to single digits/teens. By your logic, that would mean they have, over eons, adapted to colder climates in order to thrive.
Contrary to popular belief. Spanish Moss and Southern Magnolias are also pretty cold hardy. They can handle temps in the low 20's for short periods of time, which does happen almost every winter somewhere in the south.
Once again...Santa Monica is not the warmest place in CA. If if your going to compare the warmest place in Texas to warmer spots in SoCal, you will find many of them have similar or warmer daytime highs.
The lows are still the same, however.
South Padre is not the warmest either for daytime temperatures, maybe for nighttime temperatures. You can play with me if you want. give me a place with higher daytime temperatures and it will have even lower nighttime temperatures than Santa Monica. So you gain on one end, and lose on the other
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