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I showed the video of the Cape Verdian president because someone else said he/she has never seen a white Cape Verdian.
What determines Cabo Verde as a country of mixed people is their DNA, nothing else. I already cited the most recent study in a previous post.
The difference between Jamaica and DR is that since the 1960's (when Jamaica gained its independence) to today Jamaica's demographic has remained more or less the same while the Dr's has become darker, especially at street level with all the Haitians that now roam the streets. The DR is still for the most part lighter than most places in the Caribbean, but just a few decades ago it was even lighter than it's today and the further back in time you go it simply gets lighter and whiter. Even Frederick Douglass after visiting the DR in 1871 and touring the country extensively with the US Commission for the Annexation of the DR said that the Dominicans overall were a different people from the black. Well into the 20th century foreigners often described the DR population as being of Spanish descent with some mixture with black and indian, as the land of the octoroon (check online to see how octoroon mulattoes look like, they often look very near white). In 1914 US military Hyatt Verril even said that in no stretch of the imagination can the DR be considered a 'black republic' but that it was a decidely 'colored one' (colored as in light skin mulatto types) and that the native Dominican black was few, with most of the blacks actually being immigrants from neighboring English-speaking islands and along the border from Haiti. He even said that there was no major differences with how upper class Dominicans and those from the lower class looked. He said that there was a slightly greater presence of whites in the upper class, but that it was not a major difference from the rest of the population.
Its important to keep demographic changes in mind when making comparisons like the one you just made. The darkening of the Dominican people 'took off' after the 1970's. Until then, DR was considered to on average be even lighter than Cuba.
Even long time residents of New Yorkers that have seen NYC fill with Dominicans since the 1960's up to today will tell you that Dominicans were thought to be white or very very light skin because that's what the average Dominican immigrant looked like. But with the years the Dominican migrants arriving from the island have become darker and darker. Older Dominicans (say 40 years old and above) almost all say the same, that the DR population has changed a lot in the past few decades, and that the people in many parts of the country on average don't look as they did when they were kids and teenagers or young adults over there.
A similar situation is going to happen to the US, because all projections say that by 2040 the US is going to be majority non-white. Anyone from the future that focuses on what the US presidents looked like before Obama without taking into account that up to the 1960's or 1970's more than 80% of the population was white will reach erroneous conclusions.
I think Belize is another American country that has experienced strong demographic changes in recent years, but there the issue is more of a reduction in the percentage of blacks and native English speakers and an increase of the mestizos and native Spanish-speakers. Regardless of the demographic changes especially among the lowest class, Belize's upper class has remained mostly black and native English-speakers. Now Belize is a country with English as its official language, native English-speakers still ruling the country that now is majority native Spanish-speaking.
Lastly, its much better to see what the congressmen, senators, etc look like instead of one or two political leaders.
DR's Congress:
DR's Senate:
DR's Constitutional Tribunal of the Supreme Court (the guy with the black hat with a red fluffy ball on top is the president of the Constituional Tribunal):
In PR and Cuba the situation is different with a much greater presence of whites in similar position than is the case in the DR.
Don't know how things are in Cape Verde.
I wonder if Francisco Franco's regime in Spain has something to do with the DR'a demographics pre 1960, as many Spaniards went to Cuba during his time in power. So, many of those that left may have gone the DR as well.
This may have been the case also given that Trujillo regime in DR was one that was had an anti Haitian/Black feel to it.
It's a shame how Black Americans are treated, not just by Whites, but by Black foreigners who want to completely distinguish themselves from AA's when it's convenient. Many times, it'll be the AA community that has our back when racism strikes.
I'm actually shocked that a Haitian person from Florida is saying this. Most Haitians I know in Florida have nothing but horror stories about AAs because of the constant hatred and bullying they had to go through in school in 80s, and 90s.
I'm a Haitian New Yorker and most of the hate towards Haitians came from other West Indian groups. So at one point I actually admired AAs, and Africans more so than West Indians. But since I'm 24 now I admire the whole diaspora since the hate isn't as big as it once was. But West Indians in general tend to have very huge divisive egos.
You have bajans who see Jamaicans as low. You have Trinidadians who really think they can digest gold, and you got segregated Guyanese neighborhoods right here in NYC. As a matter of fact the Haitian chick I am speak to right now just told me that she feels sad for anyone who isn't Haitian, and told me that I act too American.
No black groups seem to like Haitians unfortunately. A girl from Roxbury in Boston and a girl from Queens in NYC both hid from me the fact that they were Haitian. The girl in Boston claimed only her Jamaican and Dominican side. and the girl from queens only told me she was Guyanese. The queens girl i could tell she was Haitian..because she was half Haitian and sadly...a part of me didn't want to say it aloud. The girl from Boston was 1/2 Jamaican 1.4 Dominican and 1/4th Haitian and she didn't tell me for 6 months..I asked why she hadn't told me and she said, have you heard how you talk about Haitians?? How your friends talk about Haitians? ..Ive never felt like such a POS in my life.
I think it comes from the fact that they speak gfrench and creole so its harder for them to integrate into Black american society, that and they seem to be more rooted in an African culture, and are the poorest blacks in the Western World. On top of that theyre a big island and seem to ride the shirt tails of Jamaicans but dont have a a cool, stereotype like Jamaicans do with Reggae/Dancehall/Weed.
My current girlfriend, when we were young, her and her brothers used to call each other "little haitians" as an insult. I remember her dad said "I want yall to cut that out, there's alot of Haitians around and you might get caught up. its not nice"
Miami is certainly heavily immigrant, but it lacks a significant African population. DC has a good number of African nationalities (both East and West African), but I don't think the Caribbean population is very big.
The Caribbean population in the DC area tends to be in MD, and VA to a lesser degree. Less so in DC itself.
DC has a decent sized Caribbean carnival, which is a good barometer of how large the Caribbean population is.
Reality is that the data for immigrant blacks is not accurate, and gets even more in the non gateway cities. There is no way that ATL doesn't have a large Caribbean population. They have the 3rd largest Caribbean carnival behind NYC and MIA.
Reality is that the data for immigrant blacks is not accurate, and gets even more in the non gateway cities. There is no way that ATL doesn't have a large Caribbean population. They have the 3rd largest Caribbean carnival behind NYC and MIA.
So true, because all black people usually just get thrown into the "African American" category once they get to the states. They take a lot more care to document and keep separate statistics on Hispanics and Asians than they do black people.
It's a shame how Black Americans are treated, not just by Whites, but by Black foreigners who want to completely distinguish themselves from AA's when it's convenient. Many times, it'll be the AA community that has our back when racism strikes.
This black immigrant vs. AA goes both ways. How many AAs outside of NYC and DC, accept foreign blacks and their culture? Even in MIA I understand that there is hostility. Look at how Haitians were ATTACKED by AAs when their population began to grow in the late 70s!
If an AA approaches a Jamaican or a Nigerian, and says that "You are in America now, so you must abandon your culture, and be just like us", why be shocked at the reaction? And in case you argue otherwise, I was told exactly that, and then accused of thinking that I was better than AAs, when I refused to do this.
So yes, some black immigrants seek to boost their egos, based on debasing AAs, and using the worst stereotypes, but then AAs have their issues.
Go to Harlem and check to see how many AAs didn't ill treat the Senegalese when they first began to arrive in the early 60s. Given that most were impoverished, and undocumented, it will be very hard for me to accept that they arrived feeling superior to AAs.
Also I suggest that AAs learn history. Early West Indian migrants and their kids were very much involved in the civil rights movement and made significant contributions, and in fact often were OVER REPRESENTED among black leadership in places like NY and Boston. More than a few of the black "firsts" were foreign born, usually having connections to the English speaking Caribbean, or Haiti.
It's not about guilting anyone into anything. You can self-identify how you want. You can celebrate your culture how you want. It's the arrogance with not being "Just like regular blacks" that some Black foreigners have. And maybe race trumps culture for many AA's here in America, because any semblance of pre-European undiluted .
Let us get a few things correct.
1. Some AAs debase the Caribbean carnivals as evidence that Caribbean people don't want to be "black", meaning African American. Ignoring the massive popularity of AA culture and style among BOTH African and Caribbean blacks. This is an indication of the fact that many AAs really don't have an interest in, or a knowledge of the variety of black cultures which exist throughout the world, and therefore feel as threatened as a "redneck" by "foreigners", even when they are black.
2. Most AAs don't have the slightest interest in Africa, nor the vaguest ability to relate to continental Africans when they see them. It is a known fact that when African performers had shows, prior to visa and other restrictions rendering this to be difficult, outside of cities like NYC and DC, and maybe ATL, most of those attending were WHITE! And even in the cities where AAs did attend these shows, it was the more intellectual black and not your average AA.
3. Foreign blacks are very much aware of what race means in the USA. In fact with our foreign accents and culture, we are sometimes MORE victimized by this than are AAs, especially AAs from the upper middle class. Less educated Haitians and Africans can easily attest to this.
So, yes I will be the first to admit that many black immigrants, exposed to the less successful AAs, stereotype the entire group, and display ignorant behavior towards AAs. But it is hardly one sided.
That's more of a C-D and literally "fresh off the boat" immigrant thing. Most second-generation West Indians are "just regular Blacks" now. Just look at Derek Luke holding it down on Empire with all of its glorious ratchetness.
I find that black immigrant ignorance appears in the following environments.
1. Among newly arrived immigrants, who find themselves in inner city neighborhoods, and so lack exposure to more successful AAs.
2. Among black immigrants in STEM fields, where AAs are under represented. Again their lack of exposure leads them to believe in the stereotypes. The reality is that the US educational system doesn't reward STEM occupations the way that it does ironically in the more technologically backward African and Caribbean nations, so the best and the brightest AAs are often doing law, or business, not STEM. This might now be changing, but a JD and an MBA were until recently much more sought after, even by those with STEM undergrad degrees.
This black immigrant vs. AA goes both ways. How many AAs outside of NYC and DC, accept foreign blacks and their culture? Even in MIA I understand that there is hostility. Look at how Haitians were ATTACKED by AAs when their population began to grow in the late 70s!
If an AA approaches a Jamaican or a Nigerian, and says that "You are in America now, so you must abandon your culture, and be just like us", why be shocked at the reaction? And in case you argue otherwise, I was told exactly that, and then accused of thinking that I was better than AAs, when I refused to do this.
So yes, some black immigrants seek to boost their egos, based on debasing AAs, and using the worst stereotypes, but then AAs have their issues.
Go to Harlem and check to see how many AAs didn't ill treat the Senegalese when they first began to arrive in the early 60s. Given that most were impoverished, and undocumented, it will be very hard for me to accept that they arrived feeling superior to AAs.
Also I suggest that AAs learn history. Early West Indian migrants and their kids were very much involved in the civil rights movement and made significant contributions, and in fact often were OVER REPRESENTED among black leadership in places like NY and Boston. More than a few of the black "firsts" were foreign born, usually having connections to the English speaking Caribbean, or Haiti.
it definitely CAN go both ways, but from what I have seen, it's usually foreign blacks who look down on and act uppity with AA's, when most AA's will quickly accept and embrace anybody who is black like they are (including biracial black people). The tension and problems usually arise when you get Afro-Latinos like Dominicans talking about how they are "not black" and blacks from different Caribbean countries and from different parts of Africa who like to come to the States and reap all the benefits and rewards that AAs fought for blacks to have in America, or who and love to embrace black pop culture (like Hip Hop music and clothes), but don't really want to associate with AAs on any other level besides that.
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