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The nicest parts of Michigan are the small towns and countryside, the places where the auto industry has less influence. While the auto industry is temporarily doing better right now (on the backs of taxpayers) it is likely only temporary. History shows the radical swings of boom and bust, and even now in a so called up time the place still struggles. Who holds these coveted GM, Ford Jobs?? Mostly people over 55 years old who have been there for decades. There has not been a mass hire in those plants in over a generation. Militant unionism and high taxes (blue state America) has made it a undesirable place to do business. Young people get out of school there and have nothing to go too. Statistics sometimes show that the state has a living wage, but that is deceptive. Those few older folks making 100k a year working on an assembly line for GM skew the averages to look like its a better place to live than it is. If you are not one of those people it is 10 dollars an hour and a layoff every 2-5 years with the cycle of "boom and bust" that I already mentioned. It really is a tough place to live for a lot of people. Way too many people live in abject poverty there, and that is why the states cities look the way they do. Detroit Michigan gets the most attention, its the biggest and the worst city in the state. However Michigan has some of the gloomiest cities in America. Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, Muskegon are all really troubled and run down places. Grand Rapids is in better shape but really not much better. Grand Rapids saving grace is less auto industry influence, that is why its a better locale. If I were to pick a Michigan city that has a shot at being a regular city with a real future that is the one I would pick. Another great place up there is Traverse city, small city on the lake in Northern Michigan. Its beautiful and not an auto plant for 150 miles. The auto industry is Michigans curse. How do I know this?? I was born and raised up there, and just recently visited the place. I can say it looks the same, run down cities, too many people without jobs. That is why I gave the advice to choose Baltimore over Detroit. It just seems to me that it has a better chance of recovering but I could be wrong. Im sure some Michigan homers will not like my post, but its not meant to bash the place. Really it is sad to me that it is the way it is. Michigan can be an enjoyable place to live IF you can find decent and stable work. If your in the medical field or something in demand like that then it can be an easy place to live with an extreme low housing cost. If you can live in the northern half of Michigan it is a great place to be, but again employment is always the issue. Personally I see nothing good about being in Detroit however, its just too run down and dangerous. IMO its to far decayed to save.
Just curious, when was the last time you visited Grand Rapids? It is in wonderful condition and not just a little nicer than Detroit. It's downtown is expansive and it has so much to offer. Also, Lansing is nowhere as rundown as Saginaw, Flint, and Detroit. Lastly, Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids, Marquette, and Traverse City are great cities with very bright prospects. Michigan's bad cities are: Flint, Saginaw and Detroit.
Just curious, when was the last time you visited Grand Rapids? It is in wonderful condition and not just a little nicer than Detroit. It's downtown is expansive and it has so much to offer. Also, Lansing is nowhere as rundown as Saginaw, Flint, and Detroit. Lastly, Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids, Marquette, and Traverse City are great cities with very bright prospects. Michigan's bad cities are: Flint, Saginaw and Detroit.
It has been a while since ive been to Grand Rapids. What I remember is a very nice downtown with some areas on the south end that are not so good. (Division street) The Grand Rapids area in general is very nice however by the standards of southern Michigan. I generally see the city in a positive light, so I should not have compared it to Detroit at all. I was just trying to make the point that it still has some work to do in order to be the kind of city that attracts young people and transplants from other states. Your right I did not mention Ann Arbor, its a nice college town. I also did not mention Marquette because it is too small of an area to really consider a major city in Michigan, but it is a stunningly beautiful place, in fact its one of the prettiest places in the entire Midwest. Probably too remote for the OP however. I still stand by my statement that Michigan is better to live in if your in a rural area, and preferably in northern Michigan. Traverse City has the most economic activity, and the brightest future of Northern Michigan's major towns. I also agree with you that Lansing is not as bad as Detroit and Flint, but really Lansing is a somewhat rundown and dull town. It is not a terrible place but if I was starting with a clean slate in Mi I would try to do better than Lansing. Grand Rapids or Traverse City are so much nicer. If someone was considering Michigan they should think North or West. The further north and west you get in Michigan the nicer the place is.
It has been a while since ive been to Grand Rapids. What I remember is a very nice downtown with some areas on the south end that are not so good. (Division street) The Grand Rapids area in general is very nice however by the standards of southern Michigan. I generally see the city in a positive light, so I should not have compared it to Detroit at all. I was just trying to make the point that it still has some work to do in order to be the kind of city that attracts young people and transplants from other states. Your right I did not mention Ann Arbor, its a nice college town. I also did not mention Marquette because it is too small of an area to really consider a major city in Michigan, but it is a stunningly beautiful place, in fact its one of the prettiest places in the entire Midwest. Probably too remote for the OP however. I still stand by my statement that Michigan is better to live in if your in a rural area, and preferably in northern Michigan. Traverse City has the most economic activity, and the brightest future of Northern Michigan's major towns. I also agree with you that Lansing is not as bad as Detroit and Flint, but really Lansing is a somewhat rundown and dull town. It is not a terrible place but if I was starting with a clean slate in Mi I would try to do better than Lansing. Grand Rapids or Traverse City are so much nicer. If someone was considering Michigan they should think North or West. The further north and west you get in Michigan the nicer the place is.
Have you seen Grand Rapids growth numbers? They are some of the strongest in the Midwest. There are currently about 1500 apartment and condo units proposed or under construction in the core, and immediate surrounding neighborhoods. The waitlists to get in these places go out 18 months or more in some cases. Office space in the core is over 90% occupied with more under construction. It IS attracting those types of people. You should probably revisit it if it's been a while, the infrastructure put in place in the 90's and 00's to transition the area is really paying off. Obviously it still has some transitioning to do, but the momentum in the city is crazy. I'm a somewhat suprised at how unknown it is on here. I suppose I shouldn't be given the fact that it's not a place people can just pass through, and the emphasis on major metros.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Detroit is still hemorrhaging population, is bankrupt, has more and more abandoned cityscape, much of the city has reverted to a near-rural state, and its main industries aren't coming back or being replaced. None of this can be said about Baltimore, which is actually gaining population (albeit very slowly) and has a pretty thriving economy. Detroit may bounce back at some point, but a "Renaissance?" is happening now? Yeah right. A few Brooklyn transplants opening coffee shops in Corktown and a Whole Foods downtown does not a renaissance make. Detroit has a long long way to go and is still in freefall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan
Detroit is losing less than 500 people a month. The city is beginning to stabilize. 77 new restaurants opened downtown in the last two years, and 44 new retail stores opened downtown and midtown during this time period. Downtown has a 99% rental occupancy rate and Midtown has a 98% rental occupancy rate. A new hockey stadium is being built and 45 square blocks are slated for redevelopment. The city just embarked on laying the first leg of a metro system. The city is flanked by a bustling metropolis of 5 million people. The city needs a good 15-20 years to continue in its urban renewal.
People talk about the neighborhoods being in horrible condition, and that downtown and midtown are a small area. However, there is something very important people forget which is that the area just east of downtown which is sparsely populated and prime for redevelopment. Thus, if this area is cleaned up, (the area between Grosse Pointe and downtown, and then from downtown to Dearborn and between I-94 and Jefferson) the city will have 45 miles of "revitalized areas". In addition, there are areas such as Sherwood Forest, Boston-Edison, Rosedale Park, and University District outside the areas mentioned above which are nice. Thus, the city may be able to rest on being a city of two halves: One nice, the other rough. Detroit will not be able to fix the entire city.
Thank you Republic. and add to the fact that the economy and main industry is actually growing and has been for years now, Detroit is actually out of bankruptcy and has been for a while now. And another misconception, let's be real here, I spend more time in Detroit neighborhoods than 98% of people on this forum and there are very few entire neighborhoods that actually feel rural. Around downtown like you mentioned is one of the worst but doesn't represent the average neighborhood (which has a weighted density of 6000 ppsm). On the westside outside of Brightmoor there are next to no neighborhoods that are anywhere near rural. Plenty of vacant homes a mostly empty block here and there but that's it. And the same can't be said for Baltimore? please... Baltimore has plenty of blight. One of the worst major cities for blight outside of Detroit.
Overall, I would say that Detroit has higher risks and possibly higher returns than Baltimore. Are you a betting man?
Fully agree with this, in terms of what the OP was asking, this is it.
Detroit is indeed stabilizing, and has better days ahead. No major city saw the same sort of population and job loss as Detroit, so obviously it will take longer to right the ship like most other rust belt/industrial cities are currently in the midst of doing.
People like daniel trashing Detroit without any personal current knowledge of the city will indeed help make it more of a potential, albeit risky, windfall.
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