The American City: has it finally turned the corner? (credit card, buy)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm from KY...and live in the Lexington area for my last semester of school. Spent 4 months in Chicago (Wrigleyville/Uptown) this past summer.
I can't stand Lexington's layout. The city is one huge suburb. There is no culture there whatsoever. Louisville is the only urban center in KY.
Lexington and other poorly planned cities definately make me bitter towards suburbia and urban sprawl.
Even if you live in the heart of downtown in some of the cities there's stilll nothing of significance to walk to because the entire population lives in subdivisions.
I agree - conspicuous consumerism is audacious. However, if that is how someone chooses to live and he/she has the money to live that way . . . not my business. Someone may look at my SUV and point a finger and say - well she is not a responsible person. That would be quite presumptive. My DH and I telecommute, so we don't drive that SUV very often. And when we do, it runs on ethanol, wh/ may be controversial but it is the only alternative fuel at our disposal. So we are making the best decisions we can based on our lifestyle (we need to be able to haul things so we have to own a truck or SUV). I should not have to justify that to anyone, yet there are those of you who would mandate what type of vehicle I am allowed to buy. Pretty outrageous!
Shouldn't people at least be able to justify to themselves based on their own personal ethics as to the choices they make? What kind of ethics says "if I can afford it, I can have it?"
Sounds like philosophically you've come a long way from your Earth Day organizing days to where you are today. I am sorry you have given up the fight, though I know it's been a tough one! (But you have to admit, we HAVE accomplished some things since Earth Day #1. There wasn't any such thing as curbside recycling in 1970, now it's all over the place, at least in my part of the country)
Shouldn't people at least be able to justify to themselves based on their own personal ethics as to the choices they make? What kind of ethics says "if I can afford it, I can have it?"
Sounds like philosophically you've come a long way from your Earth Day organizing days to where you are today. I am sorry you have given up the fight, though I know it's been a tough one! (But you have to admit, we HAVE accomplished some things since Earth Day #1. There wasn't any such thing as curbside recycling in 1970, now it's all over the place, at least in my part of the country)
Yeah, I sound pretty worn out, don't I? You are so right - we have come a long way. And I feel great about some of the accomplishments - worked on emissions legislation for my state . . . even tho it took OSHA to step in and really put the clamp on things . . . there is still more to be done in NC - we have agricultural run off w/ our hog farms . . . such things as this . . .
But yes, you are very right! There was no place to take recyled materials even if people wanted to be conscientious (well - cans - to metal recycler if they would accept).
I agree - there are a lot of ethical/personal responsibility questions that we should all be asking ourselves. Over time, I have come to realize that most things really do come down to financial resources - and if a person has the $$ to create him/herself a particular lifestyle . . . then perhaps it is not up to me to judge that (maybe the best approach is to tax the heck out of that sort of behavior).
I decided to focus on corporate responsibility, b/c I felt that people have to decide for themselves what is working for them - what is socially responsible. And I also think - choice is important and I uphold each citizen's right to live as he or she chooses (off the grid, in a McMansion, whatever). I just think there is something wrong w/ mandating such things as house size. You know, most HOA put covenants/deed restrictions stating a house had to be LARGER than a certain # of sq. ft!!!! Guess that has always been the American way - bigger is better. I feel social movements have to begin w/ a change of HEART rather than legislating change.
However, w/ corporations, sadly, someone has to be a watchdog.
I have often walked a thin line in my own personal life, trying to do what I felt was socially responsible and balancing that against raising a family. I know my SUV sucks petrol, but at least I got one that uses ethanol. So call that assuaging guilt or simply compromising w/in the confines of what needs I had to address (large vehicle to transport goods) - not sure.
Maybe the younger generation will find easier ways to answer some of these questions - and perhaps they will be so disinterested in conspicuous consumerism that some things will just naturally be unattractive choices (such as "sprawlburbia" )
The ironic thing is that DRIVING in a traditional neighborhood or shopping area is also easier that driving in Sprawlburbia or a strip mall
I disagree. Wanna drive in Manhattan? (and I don't mean Manhattan, Kansas)? How about parking there? Drive around the block six times, wasting gas all along, just looking for a parking place. Even in Denver, where the driving is fairly mellow, it's not a piece of cake. It's always hard to find a parking place when I go visit my daughter who lives near the U of Denver; and you always sit and wait at Colorado Boulevard to turn left, wasting a great deal of gas, let alone time. There are narrow streets with parking almost all the way to the intersections, so you can't see what or who is coming at you.
I disagree. Wanna drive in Manhattan? (and I don't mean Manhattan, Kansas)? How about parking there? Drive around the block six times, wasting gas all along, just looking for a parking place. Even in Denver, where the driving is fairly mellow, it's not a piece of cake. It's always hard to find a parking place when I go visit my daughter who lives near the U of Denver; and you always sit and wait at Colorado Boulevard to turn left, wasting a great deal of gas, let alone time. There are narrow streets with parking almost all the way to the intersections, so you can't see what or who is coming at you.
Dear me, Pittnurse, don't you know you should have used mass transit for that trip??? Or better yet, why aren't you living downtown? Irresponsible you!!! You must live in a suburb!!! (Oh yeah . . . no light rail in Denver last time I checked).
And as for Manhattan, KS . . . wonder how one would get around w/o a vehicle there?
BTW - I did notice your attempt to set the record straight about Kansas City temps. Anyone who thinks only east coast Nor'easters bring snow . . . hasn't experienced Kansas City w/ a -30 windchill. I have. And I sure as heck was not out walking in it (and neither was anyone else, for that matter).
I suspect you agree with me that there are no pat answers to this discussion.
Dear me, Pittnurse, don't you know you should have used mass transit for that trip??? Or better yet, why aren't you living downtown? Irresponsible you!!! You must live in a suburb!!! (Oh yeah . . . no light rail in Denver last time I checked).
And as for Manhattan, KS . . . wonder how one would get around w/o a vehicle there?
BTW - I did notice your attempt to set the record straight about Kansas City temps. Anyone who thinks only east coast Nor'easters bring snow . . . hasn't experienced Kansas City w/ a -30 windchill. I have. And I sure as heck was not out walking in it (and neither was anyone else, for that matter).
I suspect you agree with me that there are no pat answers to this discussion.
Denver has actually had light rail in some areas for ten years or so. It has greatly expanded in the last several years, and further expansion is planned. We have to vote on all our taxes here, and voted to fund a huge mass transit project. And we do have bus transit all over the place. So I could take public tranportation to my daughter's. My younger daughter has taken the bus to visit her sister. But living the busy life I do (job, running a house, etc), I usually drive to her place because I can go on my own schedule.
The easterners on this board have no idea how midwestern cold feels. You would not see a bunch of little old ladies walking to the coffee shop in that winter weather.
There are no pat answers, you are correct. Yes, I live in a suburb. What I have tried to get across, and actually succeeded with a few people who shall remain nameless to protect their "urban" reputations, is that life in the burbs can be environmentally acceptable. I drive 4 1/2 miles to work, my DH drives 6. DH could actually take the bus, but he hates to be on someone else's scheule, too. We have a number of stores, restaurants, and entertainment opportunities within 3-5 miles of our home. I think most people in the city would do no better.
Denver has actually had light rail in some areas for ten years or so. It has greatly expanded in the last several years, and further expansion is planned. We have to vote on all our taxes here, and voted to fund a huge mass transit project. And we do have bus transit all over the place. So I could take public tranportation to my daughter's. My younger daughter has taken the bus to visit her sister. But living the busy life I do (job, running a house, etc), I usually drive to her place because I can go on my own schedule.
The easterners on this board have no idea how midwestern cold feels. You would not see a bunch of little old ladies walking to the coffee shop in that winter weather.
There are no pat answers, you are correct. Yes, I live in a suburb. What I have tried to get across, and actually succeeded with a few people who shall remain nameless to protect their "urban" reputations, is that life in the burbs can be environmentally acceptable. I drive 4 1/2 miles to work, my DH drives 6. DH could actually take the bus, but he hates to be on someone else's scheule, too. We have a number of stores, restaurants, and entertainment opportunities within 3-5 miles of our home. I think most people in the city would do no better.
Altho we here in Charlotte have some "sprawlburbia" going on . . . for the most part, the burbs here are evolving to (or were planned to be) self contained areas w/ everything from satellite healthcare (urgent care, doc offices, dentists, etc) to groceries, banks branches, restaurants, YMCA, etc. In addition, the newest burb here has extensive office buildings along w/ dense housing. People are choosing to live near where they work and even tho they have a Charlotte address, they are actually in a "self-contained" burb and would have no reason to return to the city core unless for entertainment, perhaps. I saw this in the midwest, as well - more like "town centers" w/ dense housing in blocks spreading out from the town center core.
Also - thank you for letting me know about Denver. Had been there on work assignments in the early 90s but have not been back to Denver (downtown) since 1995 - I am sure many changes have taken place since I was last there.
I disagree. Wanna drive in Manhattan? (and I don't mean Manhattan, Kansas)? How about parking there? Drive around the block six times, wasting gas all along, just looking for a parking place. Even in Denver, where the driving is fairly mellow, it's not a piece of cake. It's always hard to find a parking place when I go visit my daughter who lives near the U of Denver; and you always sit and wait at Colorado Boulevard to turn left, wasting a great deal of gas, let alone time. There are narrow streets with parking almost all the way to the intersections, so you can't see what or who is coming at you.
That's a false dichotomy. Censusdata is comparing "sprawlburbia" with "traditional" neigborhoods and shopping districts, not with downtown business districts or college campuses. And I agree with what Census is saying. I live in a pre-WWII city neighborhood. Most of my shopping and errands can be done on foot, it's just a couple blocks to the traditional shopping district in my neighborhood. When I drive to places in other city neighborhoods, I usually park on the street, and my walk is much shorter than a typical walk I must take from my car to the business that's my destination when I go to the mall out in sprawlsville.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Guess that has always been the American way - bigger is better. I feel social movements have to begin w/ a change of HEART rather than legislating change.
