Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
UpperPeninsulaRon Has a great point. It IS about people that can't even add 6% sales tax to a bill, or even make change for a dollar. It's not about laziness-it's about ABILITY. It is like asking a person who does not know what a spark plug is, to be hired on as the lead mechanic..
Just because you have the degree or papers, in NO WAY means you know what is going on..Degrees are WAY overrated. Experience counts. You get experience by sucking it up and doing the crap jobs until you learn the ropes..
Hell, I bet that 90% of recent grads CANNOT tell what time it is unless it is from a DIGITAL COLCK!!
Ken, I think what Ron is stressing is that there are many graduates out there who are in fact bright, talented people who are undervalued. There are many college graduates who post to this site who probably would be offended by your statistic of 90% of grads not being able to tell time, most of them know that their own time in college has allowed them to bypass those crap jobs and sucking up....something that I never had to do either.....have fun either way. Interesting spelling of "clock" none the less.
As an "almost" college graduate, I AM offended by that comment about degrees not meaning anything and that we can't tell time. It's people like that who run businesses in our state, and who are running them right into the ground, because they will not hire college graduates who don't have experience.
I would be more than happy to take a "crap job" in my field until I learn the ropes. There's nothing wrong with putting in your dues, but we can't even get a foot in the door to get those crap jobs!!!! It's what people who share your view point don't understand. There is such a high demand for jobs that employers can now be incredibly picky and demanding. The "crap jobs" are being filled by people coming out of retirement, or mothers going back to work after raising their children. How are we supposed to gain experience when we aren't even considered in the pool of possible hires?
I spent my whole highschool career gearing up for college. I did very well in school, took advanced placement courses, and did numerous extra-cirricular activities. Now that I'm two classes away from my degree, I DO feel like I wasted 5 years (4 years is almost impossible to do if you have to work while going to school) of my life! Why isn't dedicating 5 (9 years if you include the high school preperation) years of my life to one thing, which just happens to be school, enough to prove to employers that I have work ethic, that I WANT to do what I'm doing, and that I'm loyal and their time and money spend to train me will be worth it?! Not to mention that I just spent $40,000 so I could be taught HOW to do it. Just throw us a freaking rope here and let us prove ourselves.
Degrees do mean something, they mean a new, fresh perspecitve on something. We can't always do things one way forever. Eventually it gets old, doesn't work as well, and dies, even in business. I think the people of Michigan are learning that the hard way (ie-the auto industry), and the same thing can and will happen to other industries and business if they continue doing what they're doing. It's just rediculous........
I would be more than happy to take a "crap job" in my field until I learn the ropes. There's nothing wrong with putting in your dues, but we can't even get a foot in the door to get those crap jobs!!!! It's what people who share your view point don't understand. There is such a high demand for jobs that employers can now be incredibly picky and demanding. The "crap jobs" are being filled by people coming out of retirement, or mothers going back to work after raising their children. How are we supposed to gain experience when we aren't even considered in the pool of possible hires?
Just throw us a freaking rope here and let us prove ourselves.
It's just rediculous........
I understand the feeling, but being mad is not the right answer.
In the early 1970's when I graduated with a degree in a supposedly high demand technical field, my roommates and I had wallpapered our rooms with rejection letters. The early seventies were not a very good economic time, as were some of the eighties. We all had debts and very few of us had jobs at graduation. I started with a degree in engineering working in a steel mill (not in engineering).
I am obviously not looking for sympathy or accolades, it just was what it was. So I'm not sure that the seasoned versus inexperienced point is any worse today than in years past.
In terms of why people continue to work, it is a very personal decision. I know from attending numerous retirement parties that were attended by recent (two to four year) retirees, the retirees who looked great all had the same story. They started new careers, were on local boards, started businesses, etc. The ones who really looked close to the other side had the same story. Four months in Florida, no outside activities, watched TV all day, and looked terrible.
Many of our younger workers and their positions in retail and service industry have been displaced by once manufacturing employees. Has this created a sense of age discrimination in Michigan, and not just being young but older as well? Thoughts..........
There's also age discrimination in favor of younger people in professional jobs and computer fields. Only real solution is for the nation to adopt sound economic policies in order to expand the job market.
Employers might look for loyalty in their workers.
Why should workers have any loyalty when businesses' loyalty to workers vaporized in the Eighties? Money talks. If they want loyalty they should give employees an ownership stake in the company and its success.
I'm not convinced age discrimination is really what it's about. It's always been some what difficult to convince employers why if you have no experience especially no job experience of any kind that they should hire you.
I don't think it's age so much as that when there's a pile of applications and resumes, the employer is going to look for the one who best proves that they will be a good fit. References and job history always help.
And when you have job experience, then the shoe would be on the other foot and you would not like to see all your experience discounted and someone with no experience given preference. Also when you're the boss, you'll understand why experience does count.
Also -- even in the past, college graduates often had to move away from their parents' home. You can get a very good job and offered promotions that require a move. And many small towns have never had loads of job opportunities and those who wished to get ahead were open to relocating.
I think what alot of my friends, and people I knew during college were realizing is that the older generation had grown up in a time of much more economic stability. Yes the cost of items in the past was relative to ones pay, although many factors play against younger American's today. It is very hard to deny the fact that many high wage jobs have left this state, and country as well, leaving many service industry positions avaliable. As with many towns in Michigan, stable employment has since left, leaving older and younger individuals applying for the same job. Experience is hard to get when you can't obtain a job, as credit is hard to get when you can't get a loan because you have no credit. Those who estabished themselves 20 years ago, and maybe were laid off or lost their job are in no similar position to a teen or college grad who has no experience. This is the argument I hear from friends or students I talk with that cannot find employment.
UpperPeninsulaRon Has a great point. It IS about people that can't even add 6% sales tax to a bill, or even make change for a dollar. It's not about laziness-it's about ABILITY. It is like asking a person who does not know what a spark plug is, to be hired on as the lead mechanic..
Just because you have the degree or papers, in NO WAY means you know what is going on..Degrees are WAY overrated. Experience counts. You get experience by sucking it up and doing the crap jobs until you learn the ropes..
Hell, I bet that 90% of recent grads CANNOT tell what time it is unless it is from a DIGITAL COLCK!!
I think that's a little harsh. Come on, 90%? I bet most of them can read, though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting
Reverse Agisim Is A Big Problem Here!!!!
