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Old 09-07-2017, 10:00 PM
 
2,992 posts, read 3,064,080 times
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The whole having "a lot of rural blacks" makes a place feel Southern/Deep South is pretty offensive to me, because it's almost like people who say that subconsciously if not blatabtly believe that having a large black rural population gives it a place an Old South, PLANTATION feel, which is obviously offensive. And It's usually white people who use that as a reason why a place feels Southern/Deep South to them.

The funny thing, though, is the most Deep South places you will find are usually the ones that are mostly or completely rural white. When I first moved to Texas, I ended up in Deep East Texas, which is one of the most Deep South places you will ever find. The rural white folks there were so Deep South that it was the first time I couldn't understand another native born American's English due to their accent and dialect, because the rural white folks there were so country that half of them sounded like Boomhauer from King of the Hill.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:23 PM
 
4,797 posts, read 5,985,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallect View Post
The whole having "a lot of rural blacks" makes a place feel Southern/Deep South is pretty offensive to me, because it's almost like people who say that subconsciously if not blatabtly believe that having a large black rural population gives it a place an Old South, PLANTATION feel, which is obviously offensive. And It's usually white people who use that as a reason why a place feels Southern/Deep South to them.

The funny thing, though, is the most Deep South places you will find are usually the ones that are mostly or completely rural white. When I first moved to Texas, I ended up in Deep East Texas, which is one of the most Deep South places you will ever find. The rural white folks there were so Deep South that it was the first time I couldn't understand another native born American's English due to their accent and dialect, because the rural white folks there were so country that half of them sounded like Boomhauer from King of the Hill.
Sigh.

You don't even understand what people are saying. Just having unintelligible White people isn't Deep South. Those exist everywhere depending on your own perception. They aren't hard to understand because they're country, but because you're not familiar with their dialect. Lots of country people talk differently anyway.

Generally the reason rural Blacks are considered a Deep South staple is because 1)the plantation history and 2)they aren't seen anywhere else in the South, especially not in the heavily White Appalachian regions. Not only that but Deep South culture is associated with rural Blacks. Without rural Blacks you don't have Deep South culture. Blues is a great example of this.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:28 PM
 
2,992 posts, read 3,064,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Sigh.

You don't even understand what people are saying. Just having unintelligible White people isn't Deep South. Those exist everywhere depending on your own perception.

Generally the reason rural Blacks are considered a Deep South staple is because 1)the plantation history and 2)they aren't seen anywhere else in the South, especially not in the heavily White Appalachian regions. Not only that but Deep South culture is associated with rural Blacks. Without rural Blacks you don't have Deep South culture. Blues is a great example of this.
I understand what some people TRY to say, but if you constantly say it the wrong way, then it comes off the wrong way. If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you. Especially if you don't think rural white people have or can have a Deep South culture of their own. To further illustrate that, you can go to many parts of the Deep South and the white people's Southern accents and dialects are WAY heavier than the black people's who live side by side with them in the areas that do have mixed black and white populations, which was part of the point I was making. So no, you don't have to have a large rural Black population in every area of the current day Deep South to make it feel like the Deep South. Now---as I said, and as you even mention yourself---if you want to talk about slaves working on Deep South plantations 200 years ago or rural, Deep South, Black sharecroppers creating Blues music 100 years ago, then sure. But today, in the 21st Century? Absolutely not.

Last edited by Julio July; 09-07-2017 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:04 AM
 
143 posts, read 157,259 times
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Without over thinking this and over analyzing all the nuances of history, demographics and such, my simplified way of personally labelling the Deep Soutern states is any state that is entirely surrounded by other southern states. So this would make my list: LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, FL. States that would then be southern but not part of the Deep South would be AR, TX, TN, VA, OK and KY. You could argue certain pockets of those others like East Texas or Memphis or whatever are Deep South and places like south Florida aren't, but for the sake of doing whole states that would be my rule of thumb. I'm sure people will disagree seeing as how this has gone 40 pages, but that's how I personally make the distinction

And for the record I lived in AL and have spent a decent amount of time in each of the southern states, so even though I'm basing it on pure geography, I am using my experience to at least somewhat validate my list and I feel that it seems about right
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,486,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mantegna View Post
Without over thinking this and over analyzing all the nuances of history, demographics and such, my simplified way of personally labelling the Deep Soutern states is any state that is entirely surrounded by other southern states. So this would make my list: LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, FL. States that would then be southern but not part of the Deep South would be AR, TX, TN, VA, OK and KY. You could argue certain pockets of those others like East Texas or Memphis or whatever are Deep South and places like south Florida aren't, but for the sake of doing whole states that would be my rule of thumb. I'm sure people will disagree seeing as how this has gone 40 pages, but that's how I personally make the distinction

And for the record I lived in AL and have spent a decent amount of time in each of the southern states, so even though I'm basing it on pure geography, I am using my experience to at least somewhat validate my list and I feel that it seems about right
Interesting method, actually.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:16 AM
 
37,795 posts, read 41,491,884 times
Reputation: 27057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallect View Post
The whole having "a lot of rural blacks" makes a place feel Southern/Deep South is pretty offensive to me, because it's almost like people who say that subconsciously if not blatabtly believe that having a large black rural population gives it a place an Old South, PLANTATION feel, which is obviously offensive. And It's usually white people who use that as a reason why a place feels Southern/Deep South to them.
How is that "offensive"? It's merely an artifact of slavery. I don't find that offensive at all and I'm born and raised in the upper reaches of the SC Lowcountry, a region that is arguably ground zero for slavery in America.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:17 AM
 
Location: MO
2,122 posts, read 3,656,809 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallect View Post
The whole having "a lot of rural blacks" makes a place feel Southern/Deep South is pretty offensive to me, because it's almost like people who say that subconsciously if not blatabtly believe that having a large black rural population gives it a place an Old South, PLANTATION feel, which is obviously offensive. And It's usually white people who use that as a reason why a place feels Southern/Deep South to them.
I'm not trying to be offensive, and I don't agree about a "Plantation" feel, whatever the hell that is. This area has plenty of black farmers who work for themselves, not someone else, which is the complete opposite of what you are describing. I would assume this is true for much of the rest of the deep south as well. One of the unique factors of the Deep South is the cultural effects that African Americans have had on culture & cuisine. It isn't the only factor, but it is a significant one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallect View Post
The funny thing, though, is the most Deep South places you will find are usually the ones that are mostly or completely rural white. When I first moved to Texas, I ended up in Deep East Texas, which is one of the most Deep South places you will ever find. The rural white folks there were so Deep South that it was the first time I couldn't understand another native born American's English due to their accent and dialect, because the rural white folks there were so country that half of them sounded like Boomhauer from King of the Hill.
By that line of thinking, rural Appalachia would be the deep south to most of the people in this country since they are hard for many people to understand & have a very unique culture. But, I will say that I still have a hard time understanding some people here, and I grew up only 2 hours away.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:48 AM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,183 posts, read 2,391,299 times
Reputation: 2048
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Sigh.

You don't even understand what people are saying. Just having unintelligible White people isn't Deep South. Those exist everywhere depending on your own perception. They aren't hard to understand because they're country, but because you're not familiar with their dialect. Lots of country people talk differently anyway.

Generally the reason rural Blacks are considered a Deep South staple is because 1)the plantation history and 2)they aren't seen anywhere else in the South, especially not in the heavily White Appalachian regions. Not only that but Deep South culture is associated with rural Blacks. Without rural Blacks you don't have Deep South culture. Blues is a great example of this.
Then would you agree that cities like Atlanta or Birmingham aren't Deep South?
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
13,962 posts, read 13,732,599 times
Reputation: 5105
Florida is deep south but culture wise South Florida is heavy on Caribbean and Latin America
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:59 AM
 
37,795 posts, read 41,491,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Then would you agree that cities like Atlanta or Birmingham aren't Deep South?
Technically no but Birmingham actually self-identifies as a Deep South city and I suspect that's mainly based on its history and relatively well-preserved local culture.
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