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Yep. I don't necessarily have an issue with people saying that Atlanta is the Deep South as I get where they are coming from, but it lies just outside the region to me.
Culturally and physically? Looking at the map it seems that Atlanta would physically be in the deep south but maybe culturally removed. I mean, if Birmingham and Savannah are deep south and Atlanta is in the middle...
Culturally and physically? Looking at the map it seems that Atlanta would physically be in the deep south but maybe culturally removed. I mean, if Birmingham and Savannah are deep south and Atlanta is in the middle...
Birmingham really isn't Deep South either; it's in the Piedmont right along with Atlanta, but it embraces the "Deep South" label.
Georgraphically, the Deep South is the coastal plain/'Black Belt' region. There are counties with high Black populations just outside of the coastal plain region (which isn't hard to envision) but historically and geographically they differ from the coastal plain.
Birmingham really isn't Deep South either; it's in the Piedmont right along with Atlanta, but it embraces the "Deep South" label.
Georgraphically, the Deep South is the coastal plain/'Black Belt' region. There are counties with high Black populations just outside of the coastal plain region (which isn't hard to envision) but historically and geographically they differ from the coastal plain.
I had to look it up to get a clear definition. It seems that according to the map here ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_(United_States) ) that it may barely be part of the region? And does Birmingham share similar history with Atlanta, and was Mobile their version of Savannah?
Also, since Georgia was a colony, I wonder how it's historical relationship differs from that of Bham and Mobile. It's obvious that Mobile and Birmingham wmhave different histories but can't say the same for Savannah and Atlanta.
For culture, it seems obvious that there would be stronger connections to Savannah and the deep south than with anything north like the Appalachians.
But then again Atlanta was a small town in those times and really built the culture we know today when Savannah was a shell of itself.
I just intrigued myself, sorry for rambling.
I had to look it up to get a clear definition. It seems that according to the map here ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_(United_States) ) that it may barely be part of the region? And does Birmingham share similar history with Atlanta, and was Mobile their version of Savannah?
Technically, Birmingham is part of the Tennessee Valley and Ridge region which is actually just to the north of the Piedmont (it's labeled Alabama Valley and Ridge in this graphic ). Birmingham itself is within Jones Valley, flanked by two ridges--Red Mountain to the south and Sand Mountain to the north.
Birmingham absolutely shares similar history with Atlanta, and was actually more of a center of heavy industry than Atlanta, which was founded as a railroad hub. Birmingham was founded after the Civil War and known as the "Pittsburgh of the South" due to the prominence of the iron/steel industry. I suppose you could say that Mobile was Birmingham's version of Savannah in some ways.
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Also, since Georgia was a colony, I wonder how it's historical relationship differs from that of Bham and Mobile. It's obvious that Mobile and Birmingham wmhave different histories but can't say the same for Savannah and Atlanta.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you implying that Savannah and Atlanta have similar histories? Because if so, that would be inaccurate.
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For culture, it seems obvious that there would be stronger connections to Savannah and the deep south than with anything north like the Appalachians.
But then again Atlanta was a small town in those times and really built the culture we know today when Savannah was a shell of itself.
I just intrigued myself, sorry for rambling.
No problem. The Piedmont cities definitely all had connections with their port cities, but the nature of their economies were different yet complimentary in some ways.
Culturally and physically? Looking at the map it seems that Atlanta would physically be in the deep south but maybe culturally removed. I mean, if Birmingham and Savannah are deep south and Atlanta is in the middle...
Considering that traditionally prior to the 1990's, white residents in the Atlanta, Birmingham, and Savannah areas were very much alike in ancestral stock and religious identity, the Atlanta area isn't culturally distinctive from those two areas. What has separated the Atlanta area from those two areas and others is the lengths it's gone through to disassociate itself from the Deep South. Savannah continues to be a more popular tourist destination than Atlanta because it doesn't have an identity crisis like Atlanta .
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I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you implying that Savannah and Atlanta have similar histories? Because if so, that would be inaccurate.
Comparing populations between different eras, I would say that Atlanta and Savannah have more historical similarities, or at least the opportunity for such given that Atlanta was larger and older than Birmingham until they became closer in size after the industrial revolution. Even then, Savannah was always larger than Mobile. Development patterns and cultural ties between Savannah and Atlanta seem to be stronger than Birmingham and Mobile. Mobile having a more French and Spanish history and Birmingham being basically being nothing until 40-50 after Mobile being an influential economic center. I'm guessing Birmingham's main immigrant base were Scottish and Irish and other northern Europeans and Americans versus that in Mobile.
Comparing populations between different eras, I would say that Atlanta and Savannah have more historical similarities, or at least the opportunity for such given that Atlanta was larger and older than Birmingham until they became closer in size after the industrial revolution. Even then, Savannah was always larger than Mobile. Development patterns and cultural ties between Savannah and Atlanta seem to be stronger than Birmingham and Mobile. Mobile having a more French and Spanish history and Birmingham being basically being nothing until 40-50 after Mobile being an influential economic center. I'm guessing Birmingham's main immigrant base were Scottish and Irish and other northern Europeans and Americans versus that in Mobile.
Birmingham actually had lots of Italian input as well.
Considering that traditionally prior to the 1990's, white residents in the Atlanta, Birmingham, and Savannah areas were very much alike in ancestral stock and religious identity, the Atlanta area isn't culturally distinctive from those two areas. What has separated the Atlanta area from those two areas and others is the lengths it's gone through to disassociate itself from the Deep South. Savannah continues to be a more popular tourist destination than Atlanta because it doesn't have an identity crisis like Atlanta .
More so, Atlanta took the "New South" direction which led to it attracting tons of companies and transplants. Birmingham and Savannah haven't experienced anywhere near the extent Atlanta has, leading them to retain more the "deep south" feel and culture. The millions of transplants that have poured into the Metro Atlanta region would lead to this "identity crisis" you mentioned. But that is true amongst most of the newer sunbelt cities.
Comparing populations between different eras, I would say that Atlanta and Savannah have more historical similarities, or at least the opportunity for such given that Atlanta was larger and older than Birmingham until they became closer in size after the industrial revolution.
Atlanta and Savannah may have more historical similarities than Birmingham and Mobile, but Atlanta and Savannah don't that have many historical similarities overall (general Southern similarities aside). Savannah is a planned colonial river city whose economy was historically based on the slave trade. Atlanta was founded by the state of Georgia as a railroad hub--a economic venture. And there were many other differences going forward.
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Development patterns and cultural ties between Savannah and Atlanta seem to be stronger than Birmingham and Mobile.
I can definitely agree with that. That railroad hub that birthed Atlanta was intended to provide a link between Savannah's port and the Midwest. Even today, Savannah's port relies significantly upon Atlanta's economy.
Considering that traditionally prior to the 1990's, white residents in the Atlanta, Birmingham, and Savannah areas were very much alike in ancestral stock and religious identity, the Atlanta area isn't culturally distinctive from those two areas. What has separated the Atlanta area from those two areas and others is the lengths it's gone through to disassociate itself from the Deep South. Savannah continues to be a more popular tourist destination than Atlanta because it doesn't have an identity crisis like Atlanta .
Just because Atlanta's history and wealth wasn't due in large part to slavery like Savannah, Charleston, New Orleans, etc. doesn't mean it has an identity crisis. That "disassociation" from the Deep South that you speak of was always economic in nature (e.g., the New South campaign initiated after the Civil War), which is why Atlanta has boomed and surpassed the old port cities whose economies were largely based on the peculiar institution.
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