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I wouldn't consider these cities the core of the Rust Belt at all and the parameters could be said to be generous when including East Coast cities, but there is precedent for some of them to be included in the region.
There really seems to be no right or wrong definition regarding the East Coast. Some people have arbitrary reasons to separate those cities, others do not.
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What I associate with the Rustbelt are:
-early decades where the population increased three, four or even fivefold
-increasing middle class during the gilded age into the 1920s centered around coal/steel/manufacturing
-having a virtually all-white populace until the Great Migration
-severe decline post-1950 (sometimes sooner)
-struggling through the recession
-being a metro area that loses black population during the last 45 years
Of course most cities in the Rustbelt will not have all of these characteristics, but many will have most.
North Philly, Kensington, Point Breeze, Southwest, West Philly, Frankford, Lawncrest, Olney, Oxford Circle, Logan, Hunting Park, Tioga, a Big Part of Germantown, West Oak Lane, Feltonville, Juniata Park, Bridesburg, Nicetown...
ALL GHETTO!
Mayfair, Port Richmond, Parts of Bridesburg, Torresdale, South Philly (east of Broad), Somerton, Fox Chase, Far Southwest (Airport area) are all Blue Collar whites.
Quit Trying to BullSh*t me about Philly. This is pretty much all of Philadelphia outside of the greater Center City.
Nope (ignoring that you moved the goalpost and the bolded is incorrect)-
North Philly is a huge area and neighborhoods like Fairmount, Spring Garden, Northern Liberties haven't been "ghetto" in decades; they are also not blue collar. Today the same could even be said for Francisville, Poplar and parts of Brewerytown. East Oak Lane, Olney, Koreatown, West Oak Lane have pockets that may be considered "ghetto" but many others that are not. Fishtown has pockets that are blue collar but it is not ghetto at all.
In West Philly-University City, Clark Park, Cedar Park, Spruce Hill, Squirrel Hill, Poweltown Village, Overbrook Farms, Overbrook Park are not ghetto or blue collar.
South Philly East of Broad neighborhoods like Bella Vista and Queen Village are anything but ghetto or blue collar. Others like Passyunk Square, Marconi Park, Pennsport, Italian Market are far from ghetto and not all blue collar and definitely not all white. West of Broad has many neighborhoods that are not ghetto at all, and the blue collar aspect has changed drastically in others.
In Northwest Philly-Chestnut Hill, Mount Airy (East and West), East Falls, Andorra, Manayunk, Wissahickon, Roxborough are far from ghetto and not blue collar except aspects of Roxborough and Mount Airy. Germantown has a big chunk that is not ghetto.
Ugh, I don't even feel like going on because Northeast Philly has way too many neighborhoods but Bridesburg is not ghetto-blue collar and white, yes. I know I left out a lot but just trying to prove my point..
Lmao. I used census data, statistics, specific facts and history to show how Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are not similar for being in the same state. You used incredibly vague anecdotal evidence that could apply to any number of cities i.e. "They have the same type of drivers", "both cities have sports fanatics". Bye Becky
I've seen people use data to argue that Chicago is more similar to Milwaukee then it is to New York City. There's no substitute for having been there, experience the cities and their culture.
I've seen people use data to argue that Chicago is more similar to Milwaukee then it is to New York City. There's no substitute for having been there, experience the cities and their culture.
I've lived in the Philly metro area for 20 years...anyways I presented several reasons why I find Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to be dissimilar (history, accent, topography, population size, density, demographics, etc.) If you disagree that's fine, that's not the point of this thread and I am ending this conversation.
Last edited by Buckeye614; 06-23-2016 at 06:39 AM..
Yeah I didn't know enough to dispute it but figured that was amiss. It's just ironic because the wealthiest neighborhood in Philly is in the Northwest part of the city and the "hottest" is in South Philly.
Yeah. Northeast Philly to South Pittsburgh I think is a good comparison overall. Just like NE Philly, the sections closest to the city (South Side Flats, and to a lesser extent Mount Washington) have become desirable among young professionals). Wide swathes of it are in fairly rapid decline as minority residents are pushed out of gentrifying, more trendy portions of the city. But other sections remain stable blue-collar white areas.
Trying to think of other parallels:
The North Side of Pittsburgh is a lot like West Philadelphia, without the influence of the universities. Both areas have some of the finest historic housing stock in their respective cities. Both also have the juxtaposition of gentrified areas with wealthy professionals giving way to blighted African-American neighborhoods very quickly - often on a block-by block basis. Pittsburgh's North Side also has a few close in neighborhoods which are still mostly working-class white (comparable socially to the river wards in Philly) and a larger swathe of still majority-white neighborhoods in the outer ring bordering the suburbs.
Pittsburgh's East End (which has grown in terms of its definition over the years) functions as sort of a combination of the gentrified residential neighborhoods in and around Center City, University City, and Northwest Philadelphia. Everything from leafy upper-middle class neighborhoods which never declined to somewhat gritty urban neighborhoods which are very popular among young professionals. There are still some pockets of (largely black) poverty, but these are mostly vanishing.
Pittsburgh has nothing like North Philadelphia. Our black population didn't congregate on one or two "sides" of the city, but dispersed in several places after urban renewal and the riots after Martin Luther King's assassination trashed the Hill District, Pittsburgh's historic center of black culture. Thus we have black neighborhoods in the North Side, a wide band in the upper part of the East End, the Hill District, and a few scattered places elsewhere in the city.
Nope (ignoring that you moved the goalpost and the bolded is incorrect)-
North Philly is a huge area and neighborhoods like Fairmount, Spring Garden, Northern Liberties haven't been "ghetto" in decades; they are also not blue collar. Today the same could even be said for Francisville, Poplar and parts of Brewerytown. East Oak Lane, Olney, Koreatown, West Oak Lane have pockets that may be considered "ghetto" but many others that are not. Fishtown has pockets that are blue collar but it is not ghetto at all.
In West Philly-University City, Clark Park, Cedar Park, Spruce Hill, Squirrel Hill, Poweltown Village, Overbrook Farms, Overbrook Park are not ghetto or blue collar.
South Philly East of Broad neighborhoods like Bella Vista and Queen Village are anything but ghetto or blue collar. Others like Passyunk Square, Marconi Park, Pennsport, Italian Market are far from ghetto and not all blue collar and definitely not all white. West of Broad has many neighborhoods that are not ghetto at all, and the blue collar aspect has changed drastically in others.
In Northwest Philly-Chestnut Hill, Mount Airy (East and West), East Falls, Andorra, Manayunk, Wissahickon, Roxborough are far from ghetto and not blue collar except aspects of Roxborough and Mount Airy. Germantown has a big chunk that is not ghetto.
Ugh, I don't even feel like going on because Northeast Philly has way too many neighborhoods but Bridesburg is not ghetto-blue collar and white, yes. I know I left out a lot but just trying to prove my point..
Since some people now seem to define "Greater Center City" to mean any neighborhood which either borders Center City, or borders another gentrified neighborhood which borders Center City, I suppose one could argue that only "Greater Center City" and Northwest Philadelphia are desirable to middle-class professionals.
And you would argue that there's a uniform East Coast or Midwest and culture?
Northern Appalachia is a polar opposite of Southern Appalachia, such to the point the two can never be grouped together.
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