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Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe
I was talking about regions in general, not the South specifically. For instance, "China Proper" is a historic region that was defined by the majority Han Chinese population, as opposed to many other parts of what formed Chin at times. The "Islamic World" is one region defined largely by religious demographics
For the South, I just prefer to do so based on history, considering the Slave States, and Oklahoma, to be the South. Since I don't see there being an actual demographic trait holding together the entire South yet no parts of bordering states.
Fair enough. However by a similar metric you could also argue that you'd see the south as the states that were part of the Confederacy, which exclude Maryland among others.
Geographically Maryland is almost as far north as southern Nebraska and is as far north as central Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, which is one of the reasons I personally cannot call it the south.
I think that if the civil war had resulted in the formation of two nation, assuming that's how it would have gone had the south won, Maryland would be part of Dixie for sure. That's a different situation though in a lot of ways, albeit fun to muse about.
Fair enough. However by a similar metric you could also argue that you'd see the south as the states that were part of the Confederacy, which exclude Maryland among others.
Geographically Maryland is almost as far north as southern Nebraska and is as far north as central Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, which is one of the reasons I personally cannot call it the south.
I think that if the civil war had resulted in the formation of two nation, assuming that's how it would have gone had the south won, Maryland would be part of Dixie for sure. That's a different situation though in a lot of ways, albeit fun to muse about.
I posted some old videos of how Baltimore looked and felt before people started considering it non southern. The videos are from the 60s and 70s
Fair enough. However by a similar metric you could also argue that you'd see the south as the states that were part of the Confederacy, which exclude Maryland among others.
Geographically Maryland is almost as far north as southern Nebraska and is as far north as central Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, which is one of the reasons I personally cannot call it the south.
I think that if the civil war had resulted in the formation of two nation, assuming that's how it would have gone had the south won, Maryland would be part of Dixie for sure. That's a different situation though in a lot of ways, albeit fun to muse about.
And I think it makes sense if a person wants to define the South as the Former CSA, excluding Maryland, Oklahoma (?), and West Virginia. I prefer any so long as the individual is consistent. I just don't like the weird arguments people try to make based on culture to exclude regions like Maryland, Florida, and northern Virginia. Aside from some cheery picking here and there, I cannot think of actual culture that is restricted to the "South" as many of those people define the region, especially including the major cities.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,500,179 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe
And I think it makes sense if a person wants to define the South as the Former CSA, excluding Maryland, Oklahoma (?), and West Virginia. I prefer any so long as the individual is consistent. I just don't like the weird arguments people try to make based on culture to exclude regions like Maryland, Florida, and northern Virginia. Aside from some cheery picking here and there, I cannot think of actual culture that is restricted to the "South" as many of those people define the region, especially including the major cities.
Also fair I suppose.
I just draw a line. Take Delaware's southern border and extend it all the way to the Ohio river. Everything south of that line and the river is the south on out to the Mississippi. Seems to fit historical, geographical and cultural boundaries pretty well.
I've been comfortable with that concept for a long time.
I want to throw out there that west of that I do consider Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas and Oklahoma to be southern states.
Missouri is the only state out of the 3 that isn't Southern; it's in the Midwest.
Neither MD or DE are Mississippi-southern or "deep-south" southern, but people do consider them Southern. I've heard several people from the northeast and the upper Midwest say they are "going down south" when referring to going to MD or DC.
Delaware is more "northeastern" than MD since it is so small and the most populous part of the state is part of metro Philly. I agree that few people refer to DE as Southern, probably because of this.
MD has always been officially classified as Southern, but the most populous part of the state (Baltimore-DC corridor) is not strongly northern or southern. Mid Atlantic is probably the best description, which has been the conclusion on hundreds of these threads. Nowhere in the northeast will you find an equivalent of PG county. You'd only find an area like that down south. You've got a Robert E Lee high school in nearby Northern Virginia, so the region isn't devoid of Southern influence. You don't see the same ethnic groups as you do in the northeast. No northeastern-related accents. The list goes on and on. Outside of the Baltimore-Washington corridor, MD is very "southern." Eastern shore, southern MD, I guess you can classify the western part of the state as "Appalachian," but even if that's not purely southern, it's not characteristically northeastern either.
I know how mad it makes you people on City Data when MD/DC is considered Southern, but facts are facts:
Missouri is the only state out of the 3 that isn't Southern; it's in the Midwest.
Neither MD or DE are Mississippi-southern or "deep-south" southern, but people do consider them Southern. I've heard several people from the northeast and the upper Midwest say they are "going down south" when referring to going to MD or DC.
Delaware is more "northeastern" than MD since it is so small and the most populous part of the state is part of metro Philly. I agree that few people refer to DE as Southern, probably because of this.
MD has always been officially classified as Southern, but the most populous part of the state (Baltimore-DC corridor) is not strongly northern or southern. Mid Atlantic is probably the best description, which has been the conclusion on hundreds of these threads. Nowhere in the northeast will you find an equivalent of PG county. You'd only find an area like that down south. You've got a Robert E Lee high school in nearby Northern Virginia, so the region isn't devoid of Southern influence. You don't see the same ethnic groups as you do in the northeast. No northeastern-related accents. The list goes on and on. Outside of the Baltimore-Washington corridor, MD is very "southern." Eastern shore, southern MD, I guess you can classify the western part of the state as "Appalachian," but even if that's not purely southern, it's not characteristically northeastern either.
I know how mad it makes you people on City Data when MD/DC is considered Southern, but facts are facts:
I don't understand why people get mad at being considered southern. The south is the fast growing, diverse (geographically, demographically), trendy, prosperous section of the country.
I don't understand why people get mad at being considered southern. The south is the fast growing, diverse (geographically, demographically), trendy, prosperous section of the country.
People are holding on to the past it seems.
What does that have to do wth Baltimore being southern?
I don't understand why people get mad at being considered southern. The south is the fast growing, diverse (geographically, demographically), trendy, prosperous section of the country.
People are holding on to the past it seems.
Agree with you that the South is improving at a tremendous rate, but lets not gloss over the negatives, the South also falls below the belt in almost all metrics.. Noone is holding onto the past, the current statistics still show it being in a poor state (not the worst always but in the bottom half) compared to other regions when it comes to public transportation, wealth, walkability, education attainment, poverty, health, high income jobs etc.. etc.. etc.. and the fact that it's very politically conservative and religious could be a turn off to alot of folks especially with the millineal bracket. And the irony is that things that are quintessential Southern will slowly disappear as more transplants take advantage of the cheap cost of living.
And.. no, I do not include DC and Bmore in the South.
Last edited by Ebck120; 04-28-2017 at 06:07 PM..
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